VW 504/507 5w30 "thickness"

[Zack1978]

Hi everyone,
I have a quick and simple question related to the VW 504/507 spec oil. When an oil is given the 504/507 approval/rating does that automatically indicate that the oil is thicker than a run of the mill 5w30? The brand/manufacturer of the oil is irrelevant in this case.


Thank you

 

[The Lube Guy]

Yes.

 

[edyvw]

Hi everyone,
I have a quick and simple question related to the VW 504/507 spec oil. When an oil is given the 504/507 approval/rating does that automatically indicate that the oil is thicker than a run of the mill 5w30? The brand/manufacturer of the oil is irrelevant in this case.


Thank you

Yes. Also:
MB229.51, MB 229.51, BMW LL04, Porsche C30 (approvals in sam category as VW 504.00/507.00).

 

[FowVay]

A simple answer to this involves the knowledge that there are different ways to measure viscosity. The viscosity numbers printed on the bottle are related the the kinematic viscosity of the oil as taken at two different temperatures.

Another way to measure viscosity is to measure the dynamic viscosity. This is published as the high shear rate viscosity or HT/HS (high temperatue/high shear) viscosity.

Because your question indicated a comparison between a specific OEM rating as compared to a "run of the mill 5W-30" then yes, the VW specification will always have a higher dynamic viscosity than will a standard API SP/ILSAC 5W-30. The VW specification requires that the oil have a minimum dynamic viscosity of 3,5 centipoise (@150ºC) while the API oil minimum dynamic viscosity is 2,9 cP (@150ºc). Most API oils of 5W-30 viscosity grade will be around 3.1 - 3.2 cP @ 150ºC.

So what is the difference between kinematic and dynamic viscosity measurements? Kinematic viscosity literally measures how fast a measured amount of oil will pass through a metered orifice at a specific temperature under gravity by using a capillary tube device.

Dynamic viscosity uses a cup of oil that has a pintle stuck in it and then uses an electric motor to turn the pintle in the oil. The amount of torque required to spin the pintle is then used to calculate the dynamic viscosity of the oil. This procedure takes the shear rate of the oil into account whereas the kinematic capillary tube doesn't. I use a rotational viscometer like this one but professional labs have equipment to ensure fluid temp accuracy. But, this gives some idea of what's taking place when the dynamic viscosity is being calculated.

You can calculate the dynamic viscosity by multiplying the kinematic viscosity by the oils density if you don't have a need for high accuracy.

OK folks, have at it!

 

[4WD]

Indeed - shear stress tests take place in many industries that use viscous fluids … Often at multiple RPM’s (profile) …

 

[kschachn]

Yes.
View attachment 222905

And note the controlling criteria is HT/HS as it is for all approvals. There are allowed grades (which is silly in my opinion) but the approval dictates HT/HS.

 

[fantastic]

Since most of the 5w-30's off the shelf are "Resource Conserving" they are often at the lower viscosity range to conserve fuel. While OEM manufacturers may also have more stringent requirements for other area's outside of fuel savings.

 

[NuttCase]

Viscosity specifications of VW507 are aligned with ACEA C3

 

[OilUzer]

Besides being on the thicker side of the range, iirc this spec also helps when dealing or concerned with Turbo, LSPI, DI (IVD). No?

 

[SureshR]

Besides being on the thicker side of the range, iirc this spec also helps when dealing or concerned with Turbo, LSPI, DI (IVD). No?

Yes of course. Though most such oils additionally come with an API SP rating, these days (upgraded from the earlier SN/SN+).

 

[edyvw]

Besides being on the thicker side of the range, iirc this spec also helps when dealing or concerned with Turbo, LSPI, DI (IVD). No?

Yes. All European specifications have much tougher requirements than API/ILSAC oils.

 

[edyvw]

Yes of course. Though most such oils additionally come with an API SP rating, these days (upgraded from the earlier SN/SN+).

Euro? Some , some not. If in question is European vehicle, it is irrelevant as manufacturers approvals have tougher requirements.

 

[SureshR]

Euro? Some , some not. If in question is European vehicle, it is irrelevant as manufacturers approvals have tougher requirements.

True. I was talking about the market in India where the oils are almost invariably dual rated with API and corresponding ACEA specs first, vendor approvals after that.

Sometimes, funnily enough, pre euro 6 diesel specs side by side with a modern petrol one, like the Mobil1 0w40 I got that has API SP, ACEA A3/B4 and VW 502 / 503 01 / 505, MB 229.3 / 229.5 and Porsche A40.

Other oils thank god have a API SP / ACEA C3 along with vw 504 / 507 etc

 

[edyvw]

True. I was talking about the market in India where the oils are almost invariably dual rated with API and corresponding ACEA specs first, vendor approvals after that.

Sometimes, funnily enough, pre euro 6 diesel specs side by side with a modern petrol one, like the Mobil1 0w40 I got that has API SP, ACEA A3/B4 and VW 502 / 503 01 / 505, MB 229.3 / 229.5 and Porsche A40.

Other oils thank god have a API SP / ACEA C3 along with vw 504 / 507 etc

They don't.
Mobil1 ESP 0W30 has C3 and manufacturer approvals.
Motul X-Clean+ 0/5W30 EFE C3, and manufacturer approvals.
etc.

 

[SureshR]

They don't.
Mobil1 ESP 0W30 has C3 and manufacturer approvals.
Motul X-Clean+ 0/5W30 EFE C3, and manufacturer approvals.
etc.

This is funny

https://euassets.gulfoilltd.com/PDS-DPD/pds/Gulf%20Formula%20Elite_PDS_243.pdf