Volvo 1161 540 vs Toyota T-IV (T4)

[Antherzoll]

Hello,

Recently posted this on swedespeed.com, but thought it would be worthwhile adding this information here.

This has been of great debate for some time, well it has been for myself at least . Recently sent in three samples into Blackstone to analyze. One used sample of Toyota T-IV from my current fill, one virgin sample of Toyota T-IV, one virgin sample of Volvo 1161 540.

Volvo 1161540 is Made In Japan $20.63CAD/L
Toyota T-IV (T4) is Made In USA. $8.31CAD/L (This has gone up from ~$7.50/L since my last change)

Both virgin samples came from unopened containers both purchased within a week of each other. The used sample has been ran in my 2005 XC70 for 26k mi (currently at 156k mi), with the majority of those miles spent towing a trailer or hauling a canoe and camping gear. The XC has an inline magnetic filter installed along with a large fluid cooler to keep temps down on trips.

I’ll admit my ignorance here as I don’t know how to read these so I have to take blackstone’s comments for what they are worth, and to me it seems like Toyota T-IV works well for my application and the 30k mi OCI I’ve been using is acceptable based on these results.

Now, as for Volvo 1161540 vs Toyota T-IV, what do they say? The proof is in the pudding is in the eating… or something like that.

Toyota T-IV

Volvo 1161540

Well there it is! This proves to me that both fluids are identical and that Toyota T-IV is a more economical choice with similar performance.

I have done this test for my own curiosity and I’m glad to share this information with the community. While I don’t expect anything in return for my efforts, if anyone feels compelled to toss a few dollars in the hat I’ve setup a PayPal.me link below. Anything is appreciated and I’m grateful to be apart of this community. I’ll keep the link up for a bit, but will delete it in time. I will keep this information up for all to reference.

https://paypal.me/antherzoll?locale.x=en_US

Cheers!
Anthony!

 

[Sam_Julier]

Both meet the JWS-3309 specification which is all that matters. I would use the less expensive of the two. A cooler line exchange every 30k is excellent. The inline filter is a plus. If you can add an AT cooler that would be another plus.

BTW, Pennzoil Platinum HM Full Synthetic ATF has the JWS-3309 approval as well.

Astro14 has considerable Volvo experience. I will ask him to comment.

Sam

 

[Antherzoll]

I haven't been very active on volvoxc.com in recent years so it would be nice to hear from Astro14. Maybe I should share this on that forum too.

I'm quite familiar with the JWS-3309 spec. This comparison was ment to determine differences between fluids offered by both manufacturers. Based on the above they are the exact same fluid and it's great to have proof of that. I've been using T-IV for years on a 30k mi OCI and will continue to do so.

 

[GMAX]

Well, the Volvo uses a Toyota(Aisin) transmission, right? The fact is you can buy Aisin transmission fluid that Aisin says meets the Volvo specs. And it, too, is much cheaper than the Volvo branded fluid.

 

[Antherzoll]

This is true and also expect it to be the exact same as the examples above. One reason for performing this test is there has been some claims that Volvo specs a different fluid due to a different TCM programming and shift strategy, and well I wanted to see for myself if that was true as I could not find reliable information.

What's appealing to me with T4 is the availability. I've got 4 dealers all within similar distances and it's always in stock. Give each one call, ask for a price on 12L and see if they'll offer a bulk deal

 

[slacktide_bitog]

That Volvo bottle looks cool

 

[Astro14]

Antherzoll - Great to hear from you again!

Thanks for doing that analysis. Happy to help out.

I think the consensus on Volvoxc.com was that Toyota T-IV and Volvo fluid were rebadged Mobil 3309. Some people assumed that the Volvo fluid was synthetic, based solely on price, but I know it was regular ATF based on a detailed discussion with the parts counter folks at my local Volvo dealer over a decade ago.

The XC soldiers on, with nearly 270,000 miles on it, still running with the original transmission and a rebuilt valve body. I credit regular flushes of the ATF, every 30,000 miles, just as you're doing. I used Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV. I’ve also used Valvoline import multi vehicle with good results.

I did an oil cooler and external filter set-up on all three Volvos. Pictures in this thread, if you've not seen it:

02 XC70 Transmission Flush From Bottom

I was (am) underneath the front end replacing the driver's side fog lamp and found pulling the plastic bits pretty easy. While I wait for delivery of the fog lamp I am also doing all the brakes and planning a transmission flush. I found (and have now lost) a thread about pulling the lower...

www.volvoxc.com

The pictures are from my 2002 FWD T5, which is in Salt Lake City right now, serving my daughter as she works through her surgery residency. I did the same set-up on the 2001 T5, which is up in Vermont with my son. The XC has the same.

Cheers!
Astro

 

[2EHA]

This is true and also expect it to be the exact same as the examples above. One reason for performing this test is there has been some claims that Volvo specs a different fluid due to a different TCM programming and shift strategy, and well I wanted to see for myself if that was true as I could not find reliable information.

What's appealing to me with T4 is the availability. I've got 4 dealers all within similar distances and it's always in stock. Give each one call, ask for a price on 12L and see if they'll offer a bulk deal

everybody and their mom knew the genuine volvo fluid was the same as every other 3309 in existence

that’s $80 and an hour of your life you’re not gonna get back

 

[Oro_O]

Hello,

Recently posted this on swedespeed.com, but thought it would be worthwhile adding this information here.

I totally didn't see this at swedespeed - also glad you cross-posted it.

everybody and their mom knew the genuine volvo fluid was the same as every other 3309 in existence

that’s $80 and an hour of your life you’re not gonna get back

You are right, but you cannot BELIEVE the flak you get from some quarters if you say that out loud on Swedespeed, and some other Volvo forums. So Antherzoll did a solid, as he does on that forum often.

I think the consensus on Volvoxc.com was that Toyota T-IV and Volvo fluid were rebadged Mobil 3309.

No need for consensus, there's documentation! There used to be a Mobil PSDS for a product they make called - wait for it - "Toyota Genuine T-IV ATF." I bookmarked it just try to help people believe this. Ah, found it!

http://southcentral.edu/webdocs/safety_committee/SDS/North%20Mankato/North%20Mankato%20Auto%20Mechanics/Toyota%20Genuin%20ATF%20T-IV.pdf

 

[Antherzoll]

everybody and their mom knew the genuine volvo fluid was the same as every other 3309 in existence

that’s $80 and an hour of your life you’re not gonna get back

...and so did I, but now there's hard evidence.

I've done worse things with my time and money.

 

[Astro14]

I think it was great. I get tired of the arguments based on emotion. “It costs $25/quart, so it’s better!” gets repeated on Volvo forums.

But it’s not better, just marked up 300% over the exact same fluid available from a Toyota dealer or from Mobil itself.

 

[GMAX]

This is true and also expect it to be the exact same as the examples above. One reason for performing this test is there has been some claims that Volvo specs a different fluid due to a different TCM programming and shift strategy, and well I wanted to see for myself if that was true as I could not find reliable information.

What's appealing to me with T4 is the availability. I've got 4 dealers all within similar distances and it's always in stock. Give each one call, ask for a price on 12L and see if they'll offer a bulk deal

Yes, there is that TCM programming argument. I have tried the T-IV in my 2010 Volvo, and while not bad did not feel quite the same. The fluid I finally settled on was Castrol Import, which says on the back that it meets the Volvo spec, and it felt better than the genuine Volvo fluid I had also tried. Now, I have 12 quarts of the Aisin Volvo fluid but have not tried it yet.

 

[Oro_O]

Yes, there is that TCM programming argument. I have tried the T-IV in my 2010 Volvo, and while not bad did not feel quite the same. The fluid I finally settled on was Castrol Import, which says on the back that it meets the Volvo spec, and it felt better than the genuine Volvo fluid I had also tried. Now, I have 12 quarts of the Aisin Volvo fluid but have not tried it yet.

That is not unreasonable at all. Castrol Import should be very compatible with T-IV.

The Castrol Import is a Dex III-based fluid from what I know. T-IV is also a DexIII based fluid. from what I understand from my past research, T-IV was a friction-modified evolution of Dex III to deal with PWM-controlled torque converter clutches, which started to be deployed c. 1999/2000 in that generation of new Aisin transmission. Aisin didn't jump to an entirely new fluid, they just evolved the Dex III they had been designing around for years in order to deal with the new friciton/heat characteristics of the new carbon-fiber clutch plate in the pwm torque converter.

SOOO - It makes perfect sense to me for Castrol Import to work GREAT wherever Dex III and T-IV are spec'd. In fact, I've considered it for that and have used it in a T-IV application in the past (Lexus ES330). But I have found economic ways to get "genuine" T-IV (Mobil 3309, Idemitsu, etc, not just Toyota branded) cheaply so it became less of a go-to for me.

What's appealing to me with T4 is the availability. I've got 4 dealers all within similar distances and it's always in stock. Give each one call, ask for a price on 12L and see if they'll offer a bulk deal

That is precisely what I've been doing the last two years. I go to the local toyota dealer, chat a bit. Buy 10 to 12qts at a time and its $4.xx/qt - they offer over-the-counter discounts happily if you're not a jerk, into cars, and don't smell badly.

The availability has really gotten better the last several years. 10 years ago, it was pricier and harder but now it's pretty easy.

 

[Pokoki79]

I'm running Castrol Transmax Full Synthetic in my 2016 S60 T6 Drive-e. No complaints at all.