Volt or Leaf? Ask someone who owns both...

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From: http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/03/09/volt-leaf-ask-owns/

Quote:
Many comments are appearing on the internet taking enthusiastic positions for either the new 2011 Chevy Volt or the 2011 Nissan Leaf.

It seems most readers are in one "camp" or the other.

In our household, after studying the technical strengths and features of both cars as they moved from concept to production, I ended up ordering...one of each!

We had been driving a 2006 Toyota Prius and a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid, enjoying the technology and economy of those designs since mid-2006. Our Prius had around 64,000 miles and the Camry Hybrid had just 40,000, so we didn't need to replace them. But I enjoy new "toys," and cars are almost the ultimate consumer toy.

Our 2011 Volt arrived on January 13, delivered to our house by the Chevy dealer in Fairfield, California, 40 miles from our home. I couldn't find a closer dealer who would sell the Volt at MSRP and order it with the configuration that I wanted. We now have 2300 miles on the Volt, including two road trips of 200 to 300 miles, and considerable general driving.

Our computed overall gas mileage is right at 107 mpg, which is way better than even the newest Prius might achieve. The Volt has been a true attention-getter in parking lots, and hardly a trip goes by that someone does not remark on it.

The ride and interior is more European than Japanese or Detroit in feel, and the dual display screens are almost hypnotic. The seats are quite comfortable and the optional heating is nice on cold mornings; the range of height adjustment for shorter drivers is much better on the Volt than the Leaf. The GPS mapping appears totally up to date, and the Onstar feature and traffic updates work incredibly well. In the Sacramento metropolitan area, we got the Coulomb chargepoint and installation free with a DOE/Volt program.

On the negative side, the Volt lacks passive locking/unlocking which was standard on our Prius and Camry Hybrids and is fitted to the Nissan Leaf, and it does not have a rear window wiper (which the LEAF includes) for the frequent rainy days here in Northern California.

The 2011 Leaf, which arrived on February 17, being fully electric, has a much larger battery pack and a daily range of nearly 100 miles between charge sessions. We're actually getting almost that with totally local driving, but any freeway time at higher speeds reduces the LEAF range markedly.

Another negative on the Leaf is the smaller range of seat height adjustment for short drivers, along with the frustration that the GPS map software is at least five years out-of-date for our neighborhood. A further frustration for early Leaf adopters is that the "Carwings" service, which is supposed to show charging stations regionally, is not functional at all for the first three months of delivery and is only "promised" to be updated quarterly.

Nissan's "customer service" at the corporate level seems somewhat disconnected from really providing the support advertised for this cutting-edge vehicle.

On the plus side, the Leaf has room for five passengers, and the rear seat is quite comfortable with very good visibility. The proximity locking/unlocking is most appreciated, as is that rear window wiper. I even like the "mouselike" shift controller and the light colored fabric interior.

It would be hard to be a Leaf one-car family, but we will use the Leaf for all our shorter local errands and my wife's regular daily commute. The Volt will complement the total gas-free economy of the Leaf for infrequent longer trips, and for my less regular work commuting.

Switching from the Prius and Camry Hybrids, I project that our annual car upkeep costs (fuel, and regular service) will drop from around $2600 a year to around $300 a year.
 
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Ah, early adopters.
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Well, the fact that the Leaf/Volt owner was mentioning northern California and hokiefyd lives in NC kind of tipped me off! Don't think the Leaf would be able to be driven 3000 miles without a REALLY LONG extension cord!
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
The future is here, may as well get used to it


Exactly, and that is just show that both cars are not in competition one against the other, but complementary.

This guy got it,... at a high price, but he got the concept right, for the future of the family car park.
Just missing the Corvette, for fun weekends.
 
Big misconception on the volt fuel mileage at 107MPG, the DIC computation most likely completely discounts the cost of charging from the calculation - or does it? I would say it does, since most electric charge/fuel equivalents Ive read about mention 65-75 MPG cost equivalency depending on $/KWH. Happily most charging could be done or scheduled off-peak where the cost would be less.
 
Not many people happen to have $80,000 to spend on buying trendy new cars that will never pay for themselves in the fuel that they save. Especially when you consider that he traded in the previous trendy Pious and Camry hybrids to get them. These cars are just status symbols for rich greenies that want to show that "they care."

Judging from the article, the author seems to think that the most important aspects of a car are how much height adjustment is in the seats, and is the nav system up to date.

People like this should just ride the bus and stay out of the way of people that actually like cars.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
People like this should just ride the bus and stay out of the way of people that actually like cars.


What the author appreciates about a car and what you appreciate about a car appear to be very different. That doesn't mean that either of you are more "right" than the other. It simply means that you appreciate different aspects about cars. Being a "car guy" doesn't mean you can only like V-8 engines and burning rubber. Automotive appreciation covers a much wider spectrum.
 
Well the guy like cars, but in a different way than you. Maybe your track toy isn't $80k but there are many many guys doing road racing that have far more than that into their car racing hobby.
It would be good to get the electric energy numbers as well, but I assume he's charging off peak so it might be very very little.
 
I'm waiting for the grousing about the home electric bill suddenly tripling or quadrupling.....

Don't get me wrong, I think electric vehicles (especially plug-in hybrids, which is essentially what the Volt is although I'm not sure anyone calls it that) are a great thing. I just think the extreme increase in home electric consumption is being overlooked in all the hype. For a gas-furnace gas-heated-water home like mine, charging an electric car will make a huge impact on the electric bill.
 
This man had the means to buy both cars and he is just pointing out the strenghts and weakness's on both models. I think this a very good write up.
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Judging from the article, the author seems to think that the most important aspects of a car are how much height adjustment is in the seats, and is the nav system up to date.

People like this should just ride the bus and stay out of the way of people that actually like cars.


I agree with your observation, but it also applies to people who make that their first assessment of *any* car, whether electric, hybrid, 4x4, or tire-smoking V8. Its got nothing to do with the fuel of choice, its got everything to do with looking at a car as an appliance... or worse, a piece of jewelry. I appreciate the author's insight on comparing the vehicles, but if he's trading in a two vehicles that only have 40 and 60 thousand miles, then its obviously not about reducing waste for him, its about having the latest toy. He just made his carbon footprint WAY bigger then me driving a car that gets 12 mpg, but on the other hand hasn't resulted in the smelting of any new iron ore or the refining of petroleum for new plastic since 1966!
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'm waiting for the grousing about the home electric bill suddenly tripling or quadrupling.....

Don't get me wrong, I think electric vehicles (especially plug-in hybrids, which is essentially what the Volt is although I'm not sure anyone calls it that) are a great thing. I just think the extreme increase in home electric consumption is being overlooked in all the hype. For a gas-furnace gas-heated-water home like mine, charging an electric car will make a huge impact on the electric bill.



What is the power consumption for a full recharge?

I'd be really curious to see what charging an electric overnight would be comparable to. For those of us who hate doing math, is it more or less than running a typical 1000 watt 220-volt electric heater for the same period of time?

I really like the idea of electric cars and when the technology to allow me to drive 120 miles on a single charge with a $20,000 car is developed, then I'd buy it up in a heart beat. There's just no way I'd ever pay a hefty premium to be a beta tester on unproven technology.

At the very least, electric rates are fairly stable while gas can fluctuate +/- 30% in a few months. It's very hard to budget when rates vary so much (we're now paying $3.60/gallon here).
 
Ah yes. How long will it be before the various state agencies begin to require a separate meter for the car? This to apply a road use tax. Fasten your safety belts. John--Las Vegas.
 
I bet his residual values on his trade ins were quite good. It's not like they were crushed; someone else will trade something even less efficient, on and on it goes until a 1987 crown vic with slipping tranny gets crushed.
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'm waiting for the grousing about the home electric bill suddenly tripling or quadrupling.....

Don't get me wrong, I think electric vehicles (especially plug-in hybrids, which is essentially what the Volt is although I'm not sure anyone calls it that) are a great thing. I just think the extreme increase in home electric consumption is being overlooked in all the hype. For a gas-furnace gas-heated-water home like mine, charging an electric car will make a huge impact on the electric bill.



What is the power consumption for a full recharge?

I'd be really curious to see what charging an electric overnight would be comparable to. For those of us who hate doing math, is it more or less than running a typical 1000 watt 220-volt electric heater for the same period of time?

I really like the idea of electric cars and when the technology to allow me to drive 120 miles on a single charge with a $20,000 car is developed, then I'd buy it up in a heart beat. There's just no way I'd ever pay a hefty premium to be a beta tester on unproven technology.

At the very least, electric rates are fairly stable while gas can fluctuate +/- 30% in a few months. It's very hard to budget when rates vary so much (we're now paying $3.60/gallon here).


Here in Michigan you can sign up for a flat fee of $40/month or pay the kWr fee. My current rate with all carrier charges and taxes added in is just over .09 cents per kWhr.

The Volt has a 16 kWh battery, but it only utilizes a percentage of that capacity before turning over duties to the ICE. That exact percentage is not yet know afaik, I have seen talk of between 30 and 50%. So assuming a full recharge is @10 kWh, for me a full recharge would cost under 90 cents per day.

I think the national average for electricity per kWhr is right around $.12, so the national average cost of a full recharge would be about $1.20.
 
Quote:
The future is here, may as well get used to it



Who's future, this future is certainly not driven by the consumers or markets, so no, I'm not going to "get used to it" just because our government says so.

Heck, even car manufacturers don't see any logic behind the push for electric cars.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/03/bill-ford-sounds-ev-retreat/

Similar issues were raised by VW not too long ago.

Sure, car manufacturers will make electric cars in order to look green and stay with the trend, but as of now and near future they don't see electric cars being financially feasible to anyone.

The future is not known, and these two cars are not an indication of anything except our governments, media and general public’s stupidity and ignorance of other issues that electric cars create.
 
Originally Posted By: Torino
Ah yes. How long will it be before the various state agencies begin to require a separate meter for the car? This to apply a road use tax. Fasten your safety belts. John--Las Vegas.


That's exactly what killed Natural Gas home refueling which was about to explode in Oz...Govt was going to road tax ALL of the natural gas that went into a home that fueld a car on the stuff.

Former workmate heats his house on diesel. If he ever buys a diesel car, he pays road tax on ALL the diesel that he puts in his home tank.
 
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