Virgin FE7317 cut open w/light to bypass seal area.

[garageman402]

I have to agree with @cptbarkey that when you cut the can off of the base you removed the tension holding the bracket that pushes the filter element against the base. I refer to it as a bracket, because it is not a "leaf spring", you can tell by the design. The OP says that even with pressure applied, the light didn't go away. How much pressure? When you release the can from the base, everything moved. You say it didn't, but it did. You have no way of knowing how much pressure is applied when the manufacturer crimps the can onto the base, it could be hundreds of pounds. You can reassemble the filter & see how much space is left, but there is still no way you can tell how much pressure you relieved when you cut it open. We're talking about sheet metal that flexes when pressure is removed.

Some here have said this test doesn't apply to filters with no bypass, but non-bypass filters have the exact same bracket, just without the coil spring activated "poppet" valve. Look inside a Fram 3980 filter, you'll see the exact bracket at the end with the valve missing.

The only way you can accurately test this is (as another poster suggested) to somehow cut holes at the end of the filter so you can see where the bracket meets the element without removing the can, then shine your flashlight through the mounting hole in the base.

 

[garageman402]

Not old news!!! This thread is a week old and regurgitates the same BS.
It again questions capabilities of these filters based on a flashlight test.
We see an Amsoil filter “failing” this test, yet apparently supported by ISO.
Yet...People on this thread criticize essentially the same filter, aka Endurance, for not being supported by ISO??
Let’s cut to the chase ok?
Does a flashlight test, that THIS THREAD IS ALL ABOUT, negate ISO approval as evidenced in Amsoil filters?
Yes or No???

No. A flashlight test done correctly, maybe.

 

[Glenda W.]

I have to agree with @cptbarkey that when you cut the can off of the base you removed the tension holding the bracket that pushes the filter element against the base. I refer to it as a bracket, because it is not a "leaf spring", you can tell by the design. The OP says that even with pressure applied, the light didn't go away. How much pressure? When you release the can from the base, everything moved. You say it didn't, but it did. You have no way of knowing how much pressure is applied when the manufacturer crimps the can onto the base, it could be hundreds of pounds. You can reassemble the filter & see how much space is left, but there is still no way you can tell how much pressure you relieved when you cut it open. We're talking about sheet metal that flexes when pressure is removed.

Some here have said this test doesn't apply to filters with no bypass, but non-bypass filters have the exact same bracket, just without the coil spring activated "poppet" valve. Look inside a Fram 3980 filter, you'll see the exact bracket at the end with the valve missing.

The only way you can accurately test this is (as another poster suggested) to somehow cut holes at the end of the filter so you can see where the bracket meets the element without removing the can, then shine your flashlight through the mounting hole in the base.

I like this point. I wonder if the bracket/leaf spring is a one time deal like a crush washer. Once it’s crushed and preloaded it can’t be done again correctly? Problem is we just don’t know for sure.

The Fram titanium I tested did stay sealed after disassembly whatever that means. Sayjac did point out the fram contact area has a better finish.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...s7317-c-p-with-bypass-flashlight-test.386754/

 

[Ronn]

I could have sworn I read a previous comment that this wasn't "worthy of any further comment". Apparently, it is. No interest or intention of scrolling through any of you tube comments, meaningless to me. Anyone with any filter knowledge, which includes 'most' that frequent this board, knows the 'filters more than it doesn't' so ok conclusion, absurd. To quote it as proof of some absolute conclusion., desperate, imo. But I get it, for some when a finding like the one in the OP doesn't fit one's confirmation bias, have to pull out all the extraneous stops in an attempt to refute it.

Haha
I was referring to a specific comment, not the topic…no matter.
Just something ponder>>>>>
…It’s easy to lose sight of what the purpose and function of a bypass is and maybe go down a rabbit hole chasing some imperfections that ultimately really don’t have an impact on overall performance.
The function and ONLY function of a bypass to prevent catastrophic loss of oil due to filter failure from bursting or serious seal failure. Both of which are caused by excessive internal pressure from filter blockage or elevated viscosity from very low temperatures. Not trying to downplay or minimize the efforts of those pointing out
any imperfections, but it’s important to get “ a grip” so to speak and put this all in some meaningful perspective.
There are those here, who in my humble opinion, seem to be “panicking “ and yanking their recently installed filters based on this flashlight test. Ok, fine and dandy….I get it. Is this a rational decision?
Not based on what I have found, but again, just my thoughts. I will continue to use the Endurance filter with confidence and peace of mind and I’m sure thousands of Amsoil and Royal Purple fans will do the same

 

[Glenda W.]

Haha
I was referring to a specific comment, not the topic…no matter.
Just something ponder>>>>>
…It’s easy to lose sight of what the purpose and function of a bypass is and maybe go down a rabbit hole chasing some imperfections that ultimately really don’t have an impact on overall performance.
The function and ONLY function of a bypass to prevent catastrophic loss of oil due to filter failure from bursting or serious seal failure. Both of which are caused by excessive internal pressure from filter blockage or elevated viscosity from very low temperatures. Not trying to downplay or minimize the efforts of those pointing out
any imperfections, but it’s important to get “ a grip” so to speak and put this all in some meaningful perspective.
There are those who here, who in my humble opinion, seem to be “panicking “ and yanking their recently installed filters based on this flashlight test. Ok, fine and dandy….I get it. Is this a rational decision?
Not based on what I have found, but again, just my thoughts. I will continue to use the Endurance filter with confidence and peace of mind and I’m sure thousands of Amsoil and Royal Purple fans will do the same

Yes the bypass is an important feature for sure. It’s also important not to be in a stage of bypass all the time. We’re buy high efficiency filters for a reason.

Certainly not a big deal to pull this filter.

 

[Sayjac]

.....I wonder if the bracket/leaf spring is a one time deal like a crush washer. Once it’s crushed and preloaded it can’t be done again correctly?.....

The Fram titanium I tested did stay sealed after disassembly whatever that means. Sayjac did point out the fram contact area has a better finish.

I don't believe the flat spring is analogous to a crush washer. That said, once the can is cut open is would be a variable. A very small one imo. That said, I've c&p'd many and majority filters with stamped spring to know, unlike a coil spring, there just enough pressure from them to hold the element in place. Not much. So imo, and in my experience, not difficult at all to replicate it on flat surface outside the can with only light pressure.

Your last two sentences make a great point though. Isn't it interesting your Fram made OG Titanium with metal to metal seal area showed no light leakage. And it's easy to see the differences in seal area finish between the two.

 

[Ronn]

Yes the bypass is an important feature for sure. It’s also important not to be in a stage of bypass all the time. We’re buy high efficiency filters for a reason.

Certainly not a big deal to pull this filter.

View attachment 238438

Yes the bypass is an important feature for sure. It’s also important not to be in a stage of bypass all the time. We’re buy high efficiency filters for a reason.

Certainly not a big deal to pull this filter.

View attachment 238438

Yes the bypass is an important feature for sure. It’s also important not to be in a stage of bypass all the time. We’re buy high efficiency filters for a reason.

Certainly not a big deal to pull this filter.

View attachment 238438

Yes, Efficiency is the key word. One caveat…it’s the OVERALL efficiency of the FILTER itself in the “Real World” that counts. Again, to date there is ZERO evidence that this filter (Endurance) ….. or any other filter with this bypass….falls short of what they claim in filtering ability.

 

[Glenda W.]

Yes, Efficiency is the key word. One caveat…it’s the OVERALL efficiency of the FILTER itself in the “Real World” the counts.

I have a choice and I’d prefer one without a gap in the real world.

 

[Ronn]

I have a choice and I’d prefer one without a gap in the real world.

No problem

 

[Joenpb]

Thanks for the cut open, but I'm on the side of you had zero spring tension sealing the bottom. The black magic flashlight tests are meaningless.

Spring tension is not the issue, as numerous peeps have tried to close the gap using physical force to no avail. The bottom line is the bypass seal on these filters are a poor design. End of story.

 

[cptbarkey]

Spring tension is not the issue, as numerous peeps have tried to close the gap using physical force to no avail. The bottom line is the bypass seal on these filters are a poor design. End of story.

It might be for you, but its not until someone develops x-ray vision will i believe its the end of the story.

 

[garageman402]

Spring tension is not the issue, as numerous peeps have tried to close the gap using physical force to no avail. The bottom line is the bypass seal on these filters are a poor design. End of story.

It's not a spring, it's a bracket held in place by the can crimped to the base. With no flexibility, even .001" of movement can relieve hundreds of pounds of pressure. Now, before you say the can is not strong enough to take that, what is the bursting pressure? Over 300psi? Do the math with the surface area, & you'll get thousands of pounds of pressure pushing the can outward.

 

[garageman402]

It might be for you, but its not until someone develops x-ray vision will i believe its the end of the story.

Or someone cuts a hole in the end & shines a flashlight in the other end.

 

[garageman402]

I like this point. I wonder if the bracket/leaf spring is a one time deal like a crush washer. Once it’s crushed and preloaded it can’t be done again correctly? Problem is we just don’t know for sure.

The Fram titanium I tested did stay sealed after disassembly whatever that means. Sayjac did point out the fram contact area has a better finish.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...s7317-c-p-with-bypass-flashlight-test.386754/

I see in your pictures that the end with the bypass bracket has adhesive around where the tube meets the end plate. Maybe the bracket reaches in far enough to contact that & seal it? The other end (the base end) has no adhesive/sealer, but that's where the ADBV helps make a seal.

 

[Ronn]

Just for chits and giggles
Here are bypass close ups of Titanium cut open here (passing flashlight test) and shot of Endrance from video failing light test.
Titanium on top Endurance below
I get the impression that the plate seems to extend deeper into the top of the Titanium filter?

 

[garageman402]

Just for chits and giggles
Here are bypass close ups of Titanium cut open here (passing flashlight test) and shot of Endrance from video failing light test.
Titanium on top Endurance below

View attachment 238445

View attachment 238446

Thank you for that. Now, does that look like a spring or a bracket? Seems to be more metal on the Titanium where it tapers down.

 

[garageman402]

Yes, Efficiency is the key word. One caveat…it’s the OVERALL efficiency of the FILTER itself in the “Real World” that counts. Again, to date there is ZERO evidence that this filter (Endurance) ….. or any other filter with this bypass….falls short of what they claim in filtering ability.

Well, my real world experience with Fram FE vs. Amsoil EaO is a lower particle count >4u with the Fram than the Amsoil.

 

[4WD]

Up until the moment the poppet opens - the dP is acting upon the area out to that end cap bore. Measure that - calculate area - use P*A at assumed lift pressure of poppet …
There is more than spring tension holding it on seat …

 

[Glenda W.]

Or someone cuts a hole in the end & shines a flashlight in the other end.

I think at some point I’ll give this a try.

 

[garageman402]

I think at some point I’ll give this a try.

Seems like a few 3/8" holes drilled at the end should do it