Vintage Frantz Question

[JW51]

New member here. Been reading stuff here for several years.

I have an old Chevy 235 for which bypass filtration…is the the only filtration. I know enough to know that the commonly available modern bypass canister inserts are not very efficient even by full flow standards. The better of the NOS filters (Fram C4P and such) are getting a little scarce.

I intend to keep this thing a long time and need a more sustainable long term solution. I’ve narrowed those to two options:

1) The Cummins-sized spin on bypass mount and any one of the many filters that fit it. (Not sure yet if I’d need to add the 1/16 orifice somewhere)

2) A vintage Frantz setup.

——————————

That’s a bunch of backstory to get to my question(s):

1) Can a guy easily acquire TP of the proper dimensions that fits the vintage Frantz setup? If so, what brand, etc?

3) If not, is the stuff that’s old by the current Frantz marketer a fit in the old system?

 

[kschachn]

What’s the efficiency of the toilet paper? You note the current canister inserts aren’t very efficient, do you know how toilet paper compares?

 

[Number_35]

Welcome!

I would contact the company directly:

https://www.frantzfilters.com/

I ran a Frantz filter for a few years, but don't presently have a vehicle with enough room in the engine bay to use it. (I presume that's not a an issue with your inline-6.)

As I recall, standard toilet paper rolls did not fit my older system well - I had to add a number of wraps to increase the circumference. You might be best to buy the rolls right from Frantz.

Alternatively, Amsoil has a well-regarded system that can be mounted remotely, and accommodates both a full-flow and a bypass filter.

 

[MSCH]

New member here. Been reading stuff here for several years.

I have an old Chevy 235 for which bypass filtration…is the the only filtration. I know enough to know that the commonly available modern bypass canister inserts are not very efficient even by full flow standards. The better of the NOS filters (Fram C4P and such) are getting a little scarce.

some of those old 235 sixes have a really low pressure lube system.. if I remember correctly they used a mix of a splash and bath as well as low pressure lube pump to bearings... guess what I am thinking aloud here is does that type of engine have enough oil pressure to even push a fluid thru a filter? Does the engine in question come equipped with a filter?

 

[FordFETruck]

I had a Ford 352 FE engine that ran from 1967-2020 with a Frantz TP oil filter with very good oil change records (2000-2500 mile OCI were most common) most of its life written in the owners manual. It had 158,000 when I tore it down and the manual shows it was installed at 13,000 miles in 1967. The crank and bearings were the more worn-out debris filled bearings I've ever seen for something that was running good down the road and the inside of the engine was pretty dang clean for something that ran its glory years on SC and SD oil with a road draft tube. I'd definitely use a spin on style bypass filter if I were to put an external add on filter system on an engine. I was not impressed or happy with what I saw especially for having oil change records for most of its life in the owners manual. The 258,000 mile 352 FE out of my dads car that had 7 out of 8 piston rings so stuck it took a punch and chisel to break them free and more sludge than the bottom of a tar pit was in way better shape on the bottom end than the frantz tp engine was.

 

[JW51]

some of those old 235 sixes have a really low pressure lube system.. if I remember correctly they used a mix of a splash and bath as well as low pressure lube pump to bearings... guess what I am thinking aloud here is does that type of engine have enough oil pressure to even push a fluid thru a filter? Does the engine in question come equipped with a filter?

This is not the dipper rod version. This is the post 1954 type of 235 that had fully pressurized mains and rods. They were not factory equipped with a bypass filter, but vast majority of engines had them dealer installed or aftermarket otherwise. My engine currently runs a bypass canister on the manifold.

 

[JW51]

Welcome!

I would contact the company directly:

https://www.frantzfilters.com/

I ran a Frantz filter for a few years, but don't presently have a vehicle with enough room in the engine bay to use it. (I presume that's not a an issue with your inline-6.)

As I recall, standard toilet paper rolls did not fit my older system well - I had to add a number of wraps to increase the circumference. You might be best to buy the rolls right from Frantz.

Alternatively, Amsoil has a well-regarded system that can be mounted remotely, and accommodates both a full-flow and a bypass filter.

Regarding the amsoil system: I wouldn’t mind paying for their expensive-as-heck filter if I could find an affordable base with their thread pitch.

I’d welcome some ideas in that direction. I’ve heard of folks using a thread adapter, but not sure which base they started with.

 

[MSCH]

This is not the dipper rod version. This is the post 1954 type of 235 that had fully pressurized mains and rods. They were not factory equipped with a bypass filter, but vast majority of engines had them dealer installed or aftermarket otherwise. My engine currently runs a bypass canister on the manifold.

I think with a low stress low compression engine like you have there, your best bet is to just leave it as it is and change the oil frequently.
back then those engines probably had a 2000 mile OCI..

 

[drtyler]

Can you share a picture of the canister?

WIX 51100 fits most of the AC dealer installed types. The issue is not really the particular filter, but that the system only gets a small percentage of the oil flow.

Best thing to do is change the oil and filter frequently.

If the time comes for a rebuild, there is a good way to add full flow spin-on filter.

Installing a Spin-on Oil Filter on your Vinatage Chevy Engine

Deve's 47-55 Advance Design Page

devestechnet.com

 

[Greasymechtech]

As long as one of the brands is available, like the wix mentioned, keep running what you have:

Oil filter cross reference

302 replacement oil filters for Fram C4P. See cross reference chart for Fram C4P and more than 200.000 other oil filters.

www.oilfilter-crossreference.com

 

[JW51]

Wix provides no information as to the efficiency of the 51100, however a crossover Wix, the 51006….is listed at 32 micron nominal.

That’s probably just some sort of default figure, but from what I can tell….all of the modern filters for these canisters are just some very basic pleated cellulose thing.

If bypass filtration is my only filtration, I’d prefer to operate something that us purpose-built as a bypass filter. Not much volume, but highly efficient.

Thus far, I’ve been able to source NOS Fram C4P (stacked plate design) for not an atom of money. That approach isn’t going to last forever.

 

[FishFry]

This is not the dipper rod version. This is the post 1954 type of 235 that had fully pressurized mains and rods. They were not factory equipped with a bypass filter, but vast majority of engines had them dealer installed or aftermarket otherwise. My engine currently runs a bypass canister on the manifold.

My 235 came with a Frantz canister. When I took the engine apart, it was surprisingly clean.

I could even have used the old bearings again, they still looked great - don't know much miles they had though.
So I decided to keep the Frantz system.

So yeah, as long as you use the original Frantz filter media https://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/
(I prefer the synthetic 2 micron over cellulose) and not actual toilet paper, you should be fine. I have a similar system (German brand) on my 261 since 15 years now (the only filtration I have), and I'm a happy camper.

 

[JW51]

My 235 came with a Frantz canister. When I took the engine apart, it was surprisingly clean.

I could even have used the old bearings again, they still looked great - don't know much miles they had though.
So I decided to keep the Frantz system.

So yeah, as long as you use the original Frantz filter media https://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/
(I prefer the synthetic 2 micron over cellulose) and not actual toilet paper, you should be fine. I have a similar system (German brand) on my 261 since 15 years now (the only filtration I have), and I'm a happy camper.

Does the Frantz media they sell now…fit the vintage sized Frantz canister? I have it in my head there was a change at some point. Perhaps in the ID of the “roll.”

 

[drtyler]

Wix provides no information as to the efficiency of the 51100, however a crossover Wix, the 51006….is listed at 32 micron nominal.

That’s probably just some sort of default figure, but from what I can tell….all of the modern filters for these canisters are just some very basic pleated cellulose thing.

If bypass filtration is my only filtration, I’d prefer to operate something that us purpose-built as a bypass filter. Not much volume, but highly efficient.

Thus far, I’ve been able to source NOS Fram C4P (stacked plate design) for not an atom of money. That approach isn’t going to last forever.

Well, the original filter is purpose built as a bypass filter.

Is your valve cover the type with holes/slits for ventilation, or the closed type that uses vented oil cap?

 

[FishFry]

Does the Frantz media they sell now…fit the vintage sized Frantz canister? I have it in my head there was a change at some point. Perhaps in the ID of the “roll.”

They fit my canister, but I don't know what year it was build. Maybe it's a more modern device - who knows?
I would just give them a call.

 

[FishFry]

Is your valve cover the type with holes/slits for ventilation, or the closed type that uses vented oil cap?

What does the ventilation system has to do with a bypass filter?

 

[JW51]

I assume the question about the valve cover was related to how much dirt the engine might be eating.

This engine was originally fitted with a closed valve cover, filtered breather at the oil fill, and a draft tube.

I now have a PCV in the breather hole (in a closed breather designed for that purpose). Makeup air is coming through the draft tube which has a motorcycle-style vented/filtered breather.

 

[FishFry]

I have pretty much the same setup on my stovebolts , minus the PCV valve (not a big fan for several reasons) - I vent the fumes into a catch can - the vacuum for it comes from above the carb.

Anyway - with your setup you should be fine, regarding any additional dust and dirt.

 

[drtyler]

I assume the question about the valve cover was related to how much dirt the engine might be eating.

This engine was originally fitted with a closed valve cover, filtered breather at the oil fill, and a draft tube.

I now have a PCV in the breather hole (in a closed breather designed for that purpose). Makeup air is coming through the draft tube which has a motorcycle-style vented/filtered breather.

That's good, sounds like you have that covered. I see so many of these with the older style valve covers in operation. Even fresh rebuilds, makes me cringe.

 

[drtyler]

That's good, sounds like you have that covered. I see so many of these with the older style valve covers in operation. Even fresh rebuilds, makes me cringe.

Same deal with the air filter -- neither copper mesh or oil bath filter the incoming air particularly well. So easy to convert to paper element that filters much better and lessens the amount of dirt intake to the engine.