Valvoline Restore and Protect

Before we started Valvoline Restore and Protect, she was burning about 1/2 qt at every interval which we've kept at 6k/6mo.
With the Valvoline Restore and Protect both rounds, it's just a little under 1/2 qt but that's probably because I've shortened the intervals to 5k/6mo.
I'll probably run this interval to 6k which should put us right before winter and report back.
 
Is there any info on what approvals the 5W-40 will have or will they approach this as they have with Dexos in the lower viscosities and skip them? We still don’t know why that was, do we? Speculation is they didn’t want to disclose the formula or it couldn’t meet some other part of Dexos requirements allegedly (Noack?). Do Euro approvals require similar formula disclosures? Google seems to say yes.
Dexos requires ingredient disclosure, so Valvoline Restore and Protect will never have a Dexos cert (like Pennzoil Ultra Platinum will never have one).

There are no OEM approvals yet. Only "recommended for." Here's the PDS.
That's Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w30 PDS. Here's the 5W-40:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Document/18452/453e5764-7fe4-428e-bdda-c68d9b0dfdd8/2bd3f516-f217-f111-b824-9440c99ff6c1
 
Will you be wrapping the oil filter media in paper towels to dry out the oil filter media to show any carbon in the pleats?
I did wrap the filter with a few layers of paper towels and left it overnight. The paper towels definitely wicked oil out of the filter media, but I still couldn’t see any carbon. I gave the filter media a few blasts with brake cleaner over a clean paper towels and did see some black particles. They are hard to see in the pictures, but hopefully if you zoom in you can see what I did.

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I did wrap the filter with a few layers of paper towels and left it overnight. The paper towels definitely wicked oil out of the filter media, but I still couldn’t see any carbon. ...
I give that method at least one week, with several paper changes along the way. By then, oil no longer obscures particles that are large enough to see with a magnifying glass. Then the media surface feels only slightly oily to handle, and passes air very freely.
 
I recently ran an experiment to listen for noise on VRP 5W30 over the course of an OCI of 4,000 miles / 6 months. Vehicle is a well maintained 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI Theta II (non - turbo) engine. A fresh fill is very quiet in this engine running very smooth. In this Hyundai GDI engine that quiet , smooth running sensation with a new fill is gone by 3,000 miles and by 4,000 miles this oil is pretty well spent (90% interstate high speed driving). Toyota postings have shared this oil gets a bit noisy too at about the same mileage as well. Upon draining at 4,000 miles in this GDI engine there is fuel delution you can smell and the oil has a lot of soot and oil color is very dark brown to black. To end, I’m still on board believing there is piston and rings cleaning going on but VRP is not a longer drain oil and with time and moderate mileage (by 3,000 miles in my case) this oil becomes more noisy in this engine versus a newer fill. More of a knock on this engine design (GDI) and less of a knock on VRP but I will suggest no matter the engine type that by 4,000 to 5,000 miles - I’d be planning my next oil change with fresh VRP.
 
@ChrisD46 Nice comment on your observations. However, most of what your post observed is anecdotal at best without a UOA to back it up.

Noise, color and smell; by themselves, simply isn’t enough quality data to state a recommendation conclusively. It may mean something or it may mean nothing; and everything in between.

EDIT: I forgot to give you credit for the amount of soot noted. That piece can be very helpful. And, for that specific vehicle, 5000 miles would likely be a good limit given history of Hyundai engines and oil consumption; even if running VRP.

Still, I’d like to see a UOA of said example to see what things look like at 5,000 miles to begin to attempt to unpack all of that.

I give you fuel dilution is a big concern for modern TGDI engines, but then that would affect recommendations for all oils in use *IF* we can confirm how much fuel is present. To your point. there may be better oils for extending the interval than VRP.

If I change the oil immediately after a cold start with the engine only warm; as an example, there may be more of a fuel smell than draining full hot. Smell alone doesn’t tell us the actual % of presence.

So, to be accurate and thorough in our conclusions, a sample needs to be obtained and results would help confirm the suggestion.

That said, I think there is a point to limiting the intervals during cleanup phases or in oil consumption prone applications; whether preventing or resolving a condition.

.02
 
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I recently ran an experiment to listen for noise on VRP 5W30 over the course of an OCI of 4,000 miles / 6 months. Vehicle is a well maintained 2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI Theta II (non - turbo) engine. A fresh fill is very quiet in this engine running very smooth. In this Hyundai GDI engine that quiet , smooth running sensation with a new fill is gone by 3,000 miles and by 4,000 miles this oil is pretty well spent (90% interstate high speed driving). Toyota postings have shared this oil gets a bit noisy too at about the same mileage as well. Upon draining at 4,000 miles in this GDI engine there is fuel delution you can smell and the oil has a lot of soot and oil color is very dark brown to black. To end, I’m still on board believing there is piston and rings cleaning going on but VRP is not a longer drain oil and with time and moderate mileage (by 3,000 miles in my case) this oil becomes more noisy in this engine versus a newer fill. More of a knock on this engine design (GDI) and less of a knock on VRP but I will suggest no matter the engine type that by 4,000 to 5,000 miles - I’d be planning my next oil change with fresh VRP.
That's interesting and it makes sense that every engine model produces a different recipe of used engine oil.

How long has this engine been running VRP?
Has your experience been repeated?

It would be nice to see some UOA on this engine to see if anything shows up or if it's possibly just due to fuel dilution. Thanks for the info and feedback.
 
but VRP is not a longer drain oil and with time and moderate mileage (by 3,000 miles in my case) this oil becomes more noisy in this engine versus a newer fill.
Becomes more noisy compared to what? All oils become noisy in the end of their OCI. Your fuel dilution lowers the oil viscosity which for sure makes the oil more noisy.

Also, nobody said VRP is for extended oil change intervals.
 
@ChrisD46 Nice comment on your observations. However, most of what your post observed is anecdotal at best without a UOA to back it up.

Noise, color and smell; by themselves, simply isn’t enough quality data to state a recommendation conclusively. It may mean something or it may mean nothing; and everything in between.

EDIT: I forgot to give you credit for the amount of soot noted. That piece can be very helpful. And, for that specific vehicle, 5000 miles would likely be a good limit given history of Hyundai engines and oil consumption; even if running VRP.

Still, I’d like to see a UOA of said example to see what things look like at 5,000 miles to begin to attempt to unpack all of that.

I give you fuel dilution is a big concern for modern TGDI engines, but then that would affect recommendations for all oils in use *IF* we can confirm how much fuel is present. To your point. there may be better oils for extending the interval than VRP.

If I change the oil immediately after a cold start with the engine only warm; as an example, there may be more of a fuel smell than draining full hot. Smell alone doesn’t tell us the actual % of presence.

So, to be accurate and thorough in our conclusions, a sample needs to be obtained and results would help confirm the suggestion.

That said, I think there is a point to limiting the intervals during cleanup phases or in oil consumption prone applications; whether preventing or resolving a condition.

.02
I did a UOA at 4K miles with QSUD 5W20 and the oil was spent. I switched to 5W30 (mainly M1versions) and use 4K miles as my base line OCI now. I do like VRP in this engine and I like the low wear numbers it puts up. However, I like M- 0W30 ESP a lot also which may be even better in this engine with its higher HTHS.
 
I did a UOA at 4K miles with QSUD 5W20 and the oil was spent. I switched to 5W30 (mainly M1versions) and use 4K miles as my base line OCI now. I do like VRP in this engine and I like the low wear numbers it puts up. However, I like M- 0W30 ESP a lot also which may be even better in this engine with its higher HTHS.
Did you happen to post that analysis or would you mind sharing the results? Curious the ways it was spent at the time of sample. Of course, other oils may have a wide variation of results.
 
Becomes more noisy compared to what? All oils become noisy in the end of their OCI. Your fuel dilution lowers the oil viscosity which for sure makes the oil more noisy.
That assumes you have fuel dilution, and/or the conditions to produce fuel dilution, which varies significantly based on engine design, operating conditions and even the OEM.

While visc loss is often from fuel (which you'd never know with a Blackstone report), it is also sometimes from the permanent shearing of the VII polymer molecules. While many of the Euro sequences have "stay-in-grade" requirements, oils developed for "fuel economy", and the ILSAC sequences (Resource Conserving) have to meet FE improvement requirements, which is why they are generally on the lower end of the HTHS scale and are blended using polymers more likely to temporarily shear, to yield that improvement. But these VII's can permanently shear as well, leading to permanent visc loss. Fuel may potentially exasperate this issue in some formulations, as interaction between the fuel and the VII polymers is plausible.

The traditional approach here has typically been to factor in some shear, which is balanced by oxidative thickening of the base oil blend so that the product roughly ends-up where it started visc-wise. Oils like HPL (and AMSOIL if we go back quite a few years), that use/used incredibly shear stable VII's would tend to oxidative thicken in service (visc went one way: up) because that shearing wasn't happening.

My recent RAM UOA, on HPL Super Car 0W-20, the oil had thickened well into 30 grade territory for example. The HEMI's aren't known for fuel dilution, nor are many other port-injected engines, like the Pentastar.
 
That assumes you have fuel dilution, and/or the conditions to produce fuel dilution, which varies significantly based on engine design, operating conditions and even the OEM.

While visc loss is often from fuel (which you'd never know with a Blackstone report), it is also sometimes from the permanent shearing of the VII polymer molecules. While many of the Euro sequences have "stay-in-grade" requirements, oils developed for "fuel economy", and the ILSAC sequences (Resource Conserving) have to meet FE improvement requirements, which is why they are generally on the lower end of the HTHS scale and are blended using polymers more likely to temporarily shear, to yield that improvement. But these VII's can permanently shear as well, leading to permanent visc loss. Fuel may potentially exasperate this issue in some formulations, as interaction between the fuel and the VII polymers is plausible.

The traditional approach here has typically been to factor in some shear, which is balanced by oxidative thickening of the base oil blend so that the product roughly ends-up where it started visc-wise. Oils like HPL (and AMSOIL if we go back quite a few years), that use/used incredibly shear stable VII's would tend to oxidative thicken in service (visc went one way: up) because that shearing wasn't happening.

My recent RAM UOA, on HPL Super Car 0W-20, the oil had thickened well into 30 grade territory for example. The HEMI's aren't known for fuel dilution, nor are many other port-injected engines, like the Pentastar.
This is why I really want a 40 grade of VRP. The non-RC, non-ILSAC grades have a lot more formulation flexibility when free of the incentives to create lower HTHS and encourage shear on purpose.

I don't need a 40 grade for it's KV100 per se. I want it because of all the other good things that happen you when get out of the ILSAC trap.
 
Recently did my first oil change in my new F250 7.3L gas truck. Picked it up in Iowa and road tripped it 1100 miles home.
Went with R&P as I already had enough on hand. Plan on sticking with 5k OCI, it won't see a ton of mileage, mainly short trips to the gym/store and back daily with some added errands.

Would you stick to R&P or would I be better off with Valvoline EP? Or does it really not matter? I am sure I am over thinking this.
 
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