Valvoline R&P 0w-20 7,000mi OCI 2022 Toyota Camry 2.5L 109,000 Miles

[buster]

Regarding SPEED:

"Because we use the Rotating Disc Method (RDE) for the atomic emission spectroscopy, it provides different results than the more common ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma).

Because RDE doesn’t require the sample to be diluted, it can see larger particles up to 10 microns. On the other hand, ICP requires the sample to be diluted in a solvent, which lowers the maximum particle size that can be detected down to around 5 microns.

This change in particle size detection has a direct impact upon the parts per million of Molybdenum that are detected. The MoDTC additives read higher with RDE.

Simply put, you can’t directly compare the additive levels from the same sample between ICP and RDE. There will always be differences. If you know the differences, then you can adjust your perspective accordingly.

That’s a long way of saying that the calibration is not off. The equipment at the lab is calibrated every day."

 

[Glenda W.]

Regarding SPEED:

"Because we use the Rotating Disc Method (RDE) for the atomic emission spectroscopy, it provides different results than the more common ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma).

Because RDE doesn’t require the sample to be diluted, it can see larger particles up to 10 microns. On the other hand, ICP requires the sample to be diluted in a solvent, which lowers the maximum particle size that can be detected down to around 5 microns.

This change in particle size detection has a direct impact upon the parts per million of Molybdenum that are detected. The MoDTC additives read higher with RDE.

Simply put, you can’t directly compare the additive levels from the same sample between ICP and RDE. There will always be differences. If you know the differences, then you can adjust your perspective accordingly.

That’s a long way of saying that the calibration is not off. The equipment at the lab is calibrated every day."

Interesting. Problem is the ICP matches what the manufacturer lists. Easy to compare to api limits etc.

 

[martinq]

martinq, how would a 0w20 versus 0w16 affect cold start performance? Help me understand. The 0w is the number I'm wondering about, how that is different between the two oils...???

While the maximum viscosity of 0w oils are limited at -35C (cranking) and -40C (pumping) you would need to compare the actual measured results of the products.

I wouldn't be surprised is there was a correlation between the HTHS and CCS results, ie, the lower the viscosity the better the CCS result.

 

[martinq]

The Car Care Nut is pretty clear on the need for 5 k OCIs in Toyotas.. nothing in your oil analysis provides insight on the main issue, which is sludge.

He also recommends that you not have clean fluid in your transmission because it's too slippery and you need the dirt / grit to help the clutches work. Unsubscribed when I heard that.

 

[martinq]

Que?

Per the comments in the report?

"The drain interval can be extended, so resample at next oil change (9,000 to 10,000 miles)..."

 

[TomYoung]

He also recommends that you not have clean fluid in your transmission because it's too slippery and you need the dirt / grit to help the clutches work. Unsubscribed when I heard that.

Was not aware that he said this, but I am going to wager that it was not stated as guidance, except in those instances where the transmission is absolutely, thoroughly worn out, and all that is keeping the components moving as they should is the grit in highly worn transmissions. I find the TCCNs advice to be inscrutable and completely bolted to the experience of operating high mileage Toyotas. That said, regardless of the condition of a transmission, I would always advocate changing atf on schedule or when you think it’s done. If your trans is so far gone that it needs old gritty fluid to prevent failure, eat your vegetables and know for certain.

 

[Reloader59]

I don't think the VRP oil is meant for anything over 5k.

 

[martinq]

Was not aware that he said this, but I am going to wager that it was not stated as guidance, except in those instances where the transmission is absolutely, thoroughly worn out, and all that is keeping the components moving as they should is the grit in highly worn transmissions. I find the TCCNs advice to be inscrutable and completely bolted to the experience of operating high mileage Toyotas. That said, regardless of the condition of a transmission, I would always advocate changing atf on schedule or when you think it’s done. If your trans is so far gone that it needs old gritty fluid to prevent failure, eat your vegetables and know for certain.

If I recall correctly (I'm not interested in digging it up), he was referring to AT maintenance intervals, etc. The point he was making was that you do NOT want the transmission or fluid CLEAN because that will cause problems with shifting, etc.

I have a significant history of talking and working with technicians who "know better" and have "been doing this for ## YEARS!" but as is common, they really don't know what they're talking about. What IS apparent, is that they like TALKING.

 

[martinq]

I don't think the VRP oil is meant for anything over 5k.

Per Valvoline documentation, it is to be used according to the mfg recommended service intervals. So if your OCI monitor says it's time to change at 9k, then that's when you should change it. Of course, none of mfg service suggestions will be as useful as active testing.

 

[TomYoung]

If I recall correctly (I'm not interested in digging it up), he was referring to AT maintenance intervals, etc. The point he was making was that you do NOT want the transmission or fluid CLEAN because that will cause problems with shifting, etc.

I have a significant history of talking and working with technicians who "know better" and have "been doing this for ## YEARS!" but as is common, they really don't know what they're talking about. What IS apparent, is that they like TALKING.

I might see if I can find this weekend. If the idea is that the fluid is a little better after it has been used for a while, I can see that. It’s again a little bit different than the idea that a transmission is being kept functional by filthy, degraded fluid.

 

[Al]

While I am impressed with the numbers and the miles on your car using 20 wt. oil. The engineer in me still says that your max saving of $400 over that lifetime of the vehicle is not worth the risk. Yje risks are dynamic/negative operating conditions that could arise in normal driving and bearings will have a larger cushion of protection with 30 wt. oil vs 20 wt oil.

 

[martinq]

While I am impressed with the numbers and the miles on your car using 20 wt. oil. The engineer in me still says that your max saving of $400 over that lifetime of the vehicle is not worth the risk. Yje risks are dynamic/negative operating conditions that could arise in normal driving and bearings will have a larger cushion of protection with 30 wt. oil vs 20 wt oil.

I would look at the cost just to replace the piston rings. Pay more in fuel or pay more in labour? On the other hand, if you're going to change rings I would probably do a whole re-seal, plus, plus, plus "while you're in there". $$$$

 

[Al]

I would look at the cost just to replace the piston rings. Pay more in fuel or pay more in labour? On the other hand, if you're going to change rings I would probably do a whole re-seal, plus, plus, plus "while you're in there". $$$$

Piston rings will show no difference in wear.

 

[martinq]

Piston rings will show no difference in wear.

There is no correlation between HTHS viscosity and ring wear?

 

[jetman]

The Car Care Nut is pretty clear on the need for 5 k OCIs in Toyotas.. nothing in your oil analysis provides insight on the main issue, which is sludge.

nothing the CCN says holds true for my 07 Toyota 1GRFE.
example: I've done up to 18k mile oci in the 16 yrs that I've owned it. No ill effects. Today is has 235k miles, no oil consumption or unusual wear metals in its 15 UOA reports.

 

[Ericm]

Posting my oil analysis results from my latest and previous 2 oil tests.
History: I purchased the car new, I use to be a tried and true 5,000 mile oci with 0w-16 in the car, advice from the TheCarCareNut videos. Then I decided to actually test if I could go further and not be causing damage. Then after seeing the results of going 10,000 miles on 0w-16 on Pennzoil Platinum. I wanted to test the 0w-20 because the back and forth information about that the "oil pump is set to 0w-16 anything thicker will destroy the engine." so I have been having the oil sample last 3 changes. My driving is typically 80% Highway, 15% rural roads, and 5% city driving. My next oci will be 10,000 miles with the Valvoline R&P. All oil changes I used for oil filter Fram Synthetic Endurance FE4967.

View attachment 270684

Posting my oil analysis results from my latest and previous 2 oil tests.
History: I purchased the car new, I use to be a tried and true 5,000 mile oci with 0w-16 in the car, advice from the TheCarCareNut videos. Then I decided to actually test if I could go further and not be causing damage. Then after seeing the results of going 10,000 miles on 0w-16 on Pennzoil Platinum. I wanted to test the 0w-20 because the back and forth information about that the "oil pump is set to 0w-16 anything thicker will destroy the engine." so I have been having the oil sample last 3 changes. My driving is typically 80% Highway, 15% rural roads, and 5% city driving. My next oci will be 10,000 miles with the Valvoline R&P. All oil changes I used for oil filter Fram Synthetic Endurance FE4967.

View attachment 270684

Thanks for posting this, esp. comparing 0w-16 and 0w-20. I think there may be a typo in the 0w-20 Total Metals. Should it be 10?