Valvoline "Engine Protector"
- Thread starter MolaKule
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Just to clarify, this red bottle is labelled *MaxLife Engine Protector for High Mileage Vehicles*? TIA
MolaKule
Staff member
"Ok, I guess for occasional or experimenting user, this product does have its value. Thanks for the report; I might try this one on my next OCI. I'm assuming this is not as thick as the #132?"
The Valvoline product is slightly thinner than the #132, but not as "slippery,' because of #132's surfactant.
The Valvoline product is slightly thinner than the #132, but not as "slippery,' because of #132's surfactant.
Hey guys,
Quick qustion regarding this Valvoline product and viscosity.
If I have a 40W oil and add this stuff to the oil, which is also SAE 40W@100*C, does that mean the mix will stay a 40W or will it increase. Does the same principle apply for #132?
Thanks
Rick
Quick qustion regarding this Valvoline product and viscosity.
If I have a 40W oil and add this stuff to the oil, which is also SAE 40W@100*C, does that mean the mix will stay a 40W or will it increase. Does the same principle apply for #132?
Thanks
Rick
MolaKule
Staff member
The answer to both is yes.
It is best to make up a batch first starting with 250 mL per 4 or 5 quarts and then send a 4-6 oz. UOA sample of the batch to Terry Dyson for a viscosity check and overall analysis.
It is best to make up a batch first starting with 250 mL per 4 or 5 quarts and then send a 4-6 oz. UOA sample of the batch to Terry Dyson for a viscosity check and overall analysis.
Why 4-6 Oz. when the labs get ~ 2oz or so?
MolaKule
Staff member
Robie,
Because, all of my sample bottles are 4-6 oz. The rule of thumb is 3-6 oz. of sample oil for the lab. Call Terry or send him a PM and find out for sure.
The point is, have a lab sample your mix before you put into the engine. There are enough variables to consider when analyzing used oil, so if you know what you're putting in there beforehand, you can make a better analysis on the used sample.
[ October 13, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Because, all of my sample bottles are 4-6 oz. The rule of thumb is 3-6 oz. of sample oil for the lab. Call Terry or send him a PM and find out for sure.
The point is, have a lab sample your mix before you put into the engine. There are enough variables to consider when analyzing used oil, so if you know what you're putting in there beforehand, you can make a better analysis on the used sample.
[ October 13, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
MolaKule, I do dearly value your input. I don't see eye to eye on every jot or tit of every one of your points, but you usually nail it on the head most every time. I have met and do talk from time to time to people like You and Terry and Bob, about Oil, and I agree with all of you most of the time, but I need or WANT some ABC's.
If you could somehow SHARE this knowledge about the variables to consider, I would be thankful. Just do a simple A,B,C, Tom and ****, Jack, and Jill, steps to understanding the RATIOS and what to spot where and when, etc. Perhaps Take Three oils: Oil 1 (super duper favorite oil
Oil 2 (Regular common good oil)
Oil 3 (Cheap oil to avoid)
and show or give examples of their performance.
Break it down to the common man's level.
MolaKule
Staff member
Robbie,
I am not clear as to what you are asking here.
Thanks,
Mola
I am not clear as to what you are asking here.
Thanks,
Mola
MolaKule
Staff member
It appears from recaluating that Valvoline is assuming a 10% treat rate for 4 quarts so here is the rise in add levels your should see over your fresh oil if this is added:
Add Rise (ppm)
MoDTC 50
P 60
Zinc 62.5
Calcium 24
Mag. 5.7
So even a full bottle won't get you very much, except for a slight rise in viscosity. Their carrier appears to be Dispersant/VII.
I recommend you send your mix to Terry Dyson before putting into your oil and then compare it to a VOA of the original oil.
[ July 04, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Add Rise (ppm)
MoDTC 50
P 60
Zinc 62.5
Calcium 24
Mag. 5.7
So even a full bottle won't get you very much, except for a slight rise in viscosity. Their carrier appears to be Dispersant/VII.
I recommend you send your mix to Terry Dyson before putting into your oil and then compare it to a VOA of the original oil.
[ July 04, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Seems the Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment is a much better deal, per the discussion in the additives section:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001477
MolaKule
Staff member
Check your PM as well.
In a volume of 15 oz. of VEP there are 500 ppm of say Moly, rounded up. I am sure their target was 500 ppm, 600 ppm, 600 ppm, 200, ppm, and 60 ppm, respectively.
They suggest a whole 15 oz. bottle per 4-6 quarts. Let's take 4 quarts:
15 oz./128 oz. = 0.11, so rounded down to 0.10 is actually a 10% treatment. In other words, the suggested treatment rate is 15 oz./128 oz. for a 10% add increase for 4 quarts of oil.
For Moly, 10% of 500 ppm in 4 quarts yields an increase in 50 ppm. FM/AO.
For phosphorus, 10% of 600ppm in 4 quarts yields an increase in 60 ppm. AW/AO
For zinc it would be 60 ppm. AW/AO
For calcium, it would be 20 ppm. Detergent, tbn increaser.
For magnesium it would 6 ppm. Detergent
In a volume of 15 oz. of VEP there are 500 ppm of say Moly, rounded up. I am sure their target was 500 ppm, 600 ppm, 600 ppm, 200, ppm, and 60 ppm, respectively.
They suggest a whole 15 oz. bottle per 4-6 quarts. Let's take 4 quarts:
15 oz./128 oz. = 0.11, so rounded down to 0.10 is actually a 10% treatment. In other words, the suggested treatment rate is 15 oz./128 oz. for a 10% add increase for 4 quarts of oil.
For Moly, 10% of 500 ppm in 4 quarts yields an increase in 50 ppm. FM/AO.
For phosphorus, 10% of 600ppm in 4 quarts yields an increase in 60 ppm. AW/AO
For zinc it would be 60 ppm. AW/AO
For calcium, it would be 20 ppm. Detergent, tbn increaser.
For magnesium it would 6 ppm. Detergent
Thanks you confirmed my laymans method (same math.)
I am interested in the synpower oil treatment now. There's a post (from Motorbike) showing with 5oz added to 160oz sump; after running (and presuming some adds lost during run time), still he netted:
52ppm Moly
85ppm Mag
20ppm Calc
150ppm Zinc
4ppm Silicone
So I am thinking based on (5oz/160oz = .03125 dilution factor) that the synpower oil treatment has:
1664ppm Moly
2770ppm Mag
640ppm Cal
4800ppm Zinc
128ppm Silicone
I question Mag, Zinc and silicone; still it seems this may be a decent product. (Easy answer, getting Synpower oil treatment tomorrow; off to Mr. Dyson for a true read...) Thank you Mr. Molakule
I am interested in the synpower oil treatment now. There's a post (from Motorbike) showing with 5oz added to 160oz sump; after running (and presuming some adds lost during run time), still he netted:
52ppm Moly
85ppm Mag
20ppm Calc
150ppm Zinc
4ppm Silicone
So I am thinking based on (5oz/160oz = .03125 dilution factor) that the synpower oil treatment has:
1664ppm Moly
2770ppm Mag
640ppm Cal
4800ppm Zinc
128ppm Silicone
I question Mag, Zinc and silicone; still it seems this may be a decent product. (Easy answer, getting Synpower oil treatment tomorrow; off to Mr. Dyson for a true read...) Thank you Mr. Molakule
MolaKule
Staff member
Do we know what Motorbikes orignal oil's VOA was?
You have to subtract his oil's original add levels and then recalculate.
Sending the Synpower to Dyson is the best way to know for sure.
You have to subtract his oil's original add levels and then recalculate.
Sending the Synpower to Dyson is the best way to know for sure.
With more moly, phosphorous, zinc, and calcium than Valvoline Engine Protector, Torco SR-1 oil would make a better oil additive.
Motorbike's UOA: Torco SR-1 Synthetic 5W-30
MR
Motorbike's UOA: Torco SR-1 Synthetic 5W-30
MR
What's below is what was posted from Motorbike's VOA / UOA at this link. I subtracted data from oil VOA from UOA that included Synpower, to determine net additive increases as you suggest Mola. Then determined the additive dilution factor based on sump capacity (160oz) and additive amount used (5oz.) There could be some error in diluction factor as I do not know if the total sump volume was 165oz or 160 AFTER 5 oz additive was used. But this would have small effect on dilution factor. Anyway of cours real VOA on additive would be data to work from.
I too see potential value in Torco MPZ additive if used in small quantities e.g. 2 oz added to 160oz oil. (Have no idea of "suggested" treat rate and acknowledge this would only bring in additives and do little in terms of whatever carrier Torco is using as this would be so small going this route.)
(Thanks for all the sharing; learning much!)
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001357#000000
Member
Member # 2878
posted 03-15-2004 02:33 PM
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This oil was in for a little less than 2 months starting Jan 2 2004 and saw extensive warm up time and temps as low as 8f and many starts less than 20f . Many short trips with other mixed driving . The prior oil did not use moly so some plating took place at approximately 50ppm . The day before this oil was installed the engine was grossly overheated . It is a 3.0 V-6 with a 5 quart sump in a 52k mile 1992 Mercury Sable . I added 5 ounces out of the 15 ounce bottle of the Valvoline Synpower Additive " Platinum colored bottle " . It's the one with 65% Pao vs zero Pao used in the red bottle Maxlife additive that is the same size and price . Price was 2.99 for this particular bottle .
I believe this additive has much potential from the TBN and other + that is a very good low cost motor oil. The visual looked very good when drained FWIW . Supertech Filter as used and a few tanks with the Lucas UCL .
It appears the motor will come back to life after what happened to it .... man it got hotter than a two dollar pistol and I expected a much poorer analysis than this .Especially the iron .I'm sure the oil I dumped would have . It had 8k miles or thereabouts on it .
Iron 7
Chromium 1
Aluminum 4
Lead 9
Copper 8
Moly 160
Boron 119
Magnesium 95
Calcium 1937
Phos 924
Zinc 1292
Sodium 6
Silicon 15
Vi @ 100c 9.6
Fuel 1.0-- dilution
TBN 5.38 D2896
Here is the VOA of this GF-3 SL oil
Moly 108
Boron 185
Calcium 1913
Magnesium 9
Phos 1036
Zinc 1148
Silicon 11
all other is Zero .
Vi @ 40c 61.7
Vi @ 100c 10.7
TAN 1.46
TBN 6.27 D2896
For a UOA of Mobil 1 with 15 oz. of VEP added, see this link.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003199
You can see that the estimates of the additive effect of Moly is underestimated.
In THIS VOA of the VEP, it doesn't speak of Glycol. I hope someone has the original lab report so they could check that so I can sleep better tonight!
Dave
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003199
You can see that the estimates of the additive effect of Moly is underestimated.
In THIS VOA of the VEP, it doesn't speak of Glycol. I hope someone has the original lab report so they could check that so I can sleep better tonight!
Dave
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