I hate ethanol. It's in our gas because of the lobby groups. All the major producers claim that they can formulate gas that burns as clean without the required ethanol. But the politicians need to get their votes... oh well X_X
V-Power
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if you're worried about saving money by not using v-power, look into the Shell citi mastercard. at least in CA right now, they're offering $25 back when you get one and you ALWAYS get 5% back on shell gasoline and 1% on other purchases. 5% makes it the cheapest gas around, but I only run 87 octane anyways. at $2 a gallon your price is down to $1.90, and where I'm at we're currently $2.65/gal for v-power.
I probably save around a $100 a year by using this card and shell gas.
I probably save around a $100 a year by using this card and shell gas.
I try to use Shell all the time. My Durango and Audi run great on it. I put Texaco in my truck once and it began to trip error codes for the oxagen sensors. I ran that tank out and put in some Shell and the codes cleared out after a couple of days. Mobil would be my next choice. i like the high detergent fuels.
Oh woe is everyone that is "forced" by the evil corn lobby to burn that terrible ethanol in their cars, which can't even tell the difference for the most part...
It is indeed unbearably sad that we are *attempting* to take a small step towards freeing ourselves a little bit from our oil dependence, despite what flaws or perceived flaws there may be in ethanol and its production.
The production efficiency of ethanol has increased by leaps and bounds in the past decade and has gotten to a point where it is feasible economically to use widely.
Everyone here acts like they drive hot rod Aston Martins or Maseratis that need a specific "perfect" fuel for crying out loud. In fact, most of the vehicles/engines driven by those who decry ethanol are very similar to our Jeep 4.0, which has run on ethanol for 12 years and 200K and still runs fine, or perhaps our old Case 830 carbed gas tractor that has run on ethanol for going on 20 years and 3500 hours. Neither of which has had an engine, fuel system, injector, or carb problem of ANY kind.
If everyone wants to sit around and pretend the growing popularity of ethanol is because of a huge gov't conpiracy or the dirty work of those not-to-be-trusted farmers here in the midwest, be my guest. Likewise, when oil is 80+ bucks a barrel in the foreseeable future and your splendid, pure gas is well over $3 a gallon, I hope you rest easy at night knowing you're not poisoning your precious Saturn or Pontiac engine with scourge of the earth ethanol.
Meanwhile, the rest of us, and those a little more reasonable, can drive for $2 or less per gallon, experience somewhat reduced mpgs, pump a little natural life back into rural America instead of lining oil companies' pockets, and help America wean itself from the Saudi Arabian oil nipple. Oh yeah, maybe we can help create a little less pollution while we're doing it.
For you anti ethanol bandwagoneers:
It isn't the solution for everything, but at least we're trying. Hey Chicago, if you can't find a gas station that doesn't sell non-ethanol gas, you ain't trying real hard. Here's a suggestion: Drive all around the city to find some non ethanol gas to fill up on, so you won't have the hassle of the massive fuel economy hit you'll be taking by fueling up at the nearby ethanol station.
It may accomplish something for you though--you'll find out you can't tell any discernible difference performance wise, and most likely economy wise. (But you'll probably tell yourself you did.)
Why isn't there a similar anti Biodiesel contingent as well, since many of the drawbacks/positives are the same between the two?
lower energy content, slightly lower mpgs, fewer emissions, etc.
We run primarily diesel vehicles/tractors in our operation and personal lives, and use B10 and E10 for everything.
It is indeed unbearably sad that we are *attempting* to take a small step towards freeing ourselves a little bit from our oil dependence, despite what flaws or perceived flaws there may be in ethanol and its production.
The production efficiency of ethanol has increased by leaps and bounds in the past decade and has gotten to a point where it is feasible economically to use widely.
Everyone here acts like they drive hot rod Aston Martins or Maseratis that need a specific "perfect" fuel for crying out loud. In fact, most of the vehicles/engines driven by those who decry ethanol are very similar to our Jeep 4.0, which has run on ethanol for 12 years and 200K and still runs fine, or perhaps our old Case 830 carbed gas tractor that has run on ethanol for going on 20 years and 3500 hours. Neither of which has had an engine, fuel system, injector, or carb problem of ANY kind.
If everyone wants to sit around and pretend the growing popularity of ethanol is because of a huge gov't conpiracy or the dirty work of those not-to-be-trusted farmers here in the midwest, be my guest. Likewise, when oil is 80+ bucks a barrel in the foreseeable future and your splendid, pure gas is well over $3 a gallon, I hope you rest easy at night knowing you're not poisoning your precious Saturn or Pontiac engine with scourge of the earth ethanol.
Meanwhile, the rest of us, and those a little more reasonable, can drive for $2 or less per gallon, experience somewhat reduced mpgs, pump a little natural life back into rural America instead of lining oil companies' pockets, and help America wean itself from the Saudi Arabian oil nipple. Oh yeah, maybe we can help create a little less pollution while we're doing it.
For you anti ethanol bandwagoneers:
It isn't the solution for everything, but at least we're trying. Hey Chicago, if you can't find a gas station that doesn't sell non-ethanol gas, you ain't trying real hard. Here's a suggestion: Drive all around the city to find some non ethanol gas to fill up on, so you won't have the hassle of the massive fuel economy hit you'll be taking by fueling up at the nearby ethanol station.
Why isn't there a similar anti Biodiesel contingent as well, since many of the drawbacks/positives are the same between the two?
lower energy content, slightly lower mpgs, fewer emissions, etc.
We run primarily diesel vehicles/tractors in our operation and personal lives, and use B10 and E10 for everything.
Esso 91 for fuel best for power / fuel economy in my Volvo 5 cylinder non-turbo - Shell had poorer fuel economy and less power in the heat of summer.
When Otimax FIRST came out in 2000 - better fuel economy - better throttle response - slightly less mid to full throttle power than Esso. That formulation changed after it harmed some vehicles fuel level sender units on some brands.
My last Shell test was within the last month - it was such poop I HOPE it has a bad lot of fuel from one station - ESSO continues to be the best fuel for my Volvo (91 oct) - and my old V8 power carb'd van (87 to 89 depending on expected load and temp)
MAT
When Otimax FIRST came out in 2000 - better fuel economy - better throttle response - slightly less mid to full throttle power than Esso. That formulation changed after it harmed some vehicles fuel level sender units on some brands.
My last Shell test was within the last month - it was such poop I HOPE it has a bad lot of fuel from one station - ESSO continues to be the best fuel for my Volvo (91 oct) - and my old V8 power carb'd van (87 to 89 depending on expected load and temp)
MAT
Wow. Relax. First off, if you don't think the gas in Illinois is 10% ethanol because of the "corn lobby," you're dreaming. That said, I'm certainly not claiming that ethanol is terrible: just that the benefits it provides are offset by the mileage hit it creates. Further, I don't about you, but in Chicago the gas prices are consistently higher than most other places in the country barring California ... even with the wonderful cost-saving addition of ethanol. Ethanol does a lot of things, but bringing the price of gas down isn't one of them. Finally, if you believe that the addition of ethanol to our gas supply provides any significant dip in our dependence on foreign oil, I'm afraid you're fooling yourself. Our dependence on foreign oil has a lot more to do with other things besides supply and demand. Example? There's enough petroleum sitting in rocks in Canada to fuel all of our cars for the foreseeable future. Why haven't we developed the resources to get it out? 'Cause up until now it's been cheaper to buy it from countries who just pull it out of the ground.quote:
Originally posted by Strjock81:
Oh woe is everyone that is "forced" by the evil corn lobby to burn that terrible ethanol in their cars, which can't even tell the difference for the most part...
It is indeed unbearably sad that we are *attempting* to take a small step towards freeing ourselves a little bit from our oil dependence, despite what flaws or perceived flaws there may be in ethanol and its production.
The production efficiency of ethanol has increased by leaps and bounds in the past decade and has gotten to a point where it is feasible economically to use widely.
Everyone here acts like they drive hot rod Aston Martins or Maseratis that need a specific "perfect" fuel for crying out loud. In fact, most of the vehicles/engines driven by those who decry ethanol are very similar to our Jeep 4.0, which has run on ethanol for 12 years and 200K and still runs fine, or perhaps our old Case 830 carbed gas tractor that has run on ethanol for going on 20 years and 3500 hours. Neither of which has had an engine, fuel system, injector, or carb problem of ANY kind.
If everyone wants to sit around and pretend the growing popularity of ethanol is because of a huge gov't conpiracy or the dirty work of those not-to-be-trusted farmers here in the midwest, be my guest. Likewise, when oil is 80+ bucks a barrel in the foreseeable future and your splendid, pure gas is well over $3 a gallon, I hope you rest easy at night knowing you're not poisoning your precious Saturn or Pontiac engine with scourge of the earth ethanol.
Meanwhile, the rest of us, and those a little more reasonable, can drive for $2 or less per gallon, experience somewhat reduced mpgs, pump a little natural life back into rural America instead of lining oil companies' pockets, and help America wean itself from the Saudi Arabian oil . Oh yeah, maybe we can help create a little less pollution while we're doing it.
For you anti ethanol bandwagoneers:
It isn't the solution for everything, but at least we're trying. Hey Chicago, if you can't find a gas station that doesn't sell non-ethanol gas, you ain't trying real hard. Here's a suggestion: Drive all around the city to find some non ethanol gas to fill up on, so you won't have the hassle of the massive fuel economy hit you'll be taking by fueling up at the nearby ethanol station.It may accomplish something for you though--you'll find out you can't tell any discernible difference performance wise, and most likely economy wise. (But you'll probably tell yourself you did.)
Why isn't there a similar anti Biodiesel contingent as well, since many of the drawbacks/positives are the same between the two?
lower energy content, slightly lower mpgs, fewer emissions, etc.
We run primarily diesel vehicles/tractors in our operation and personal lives, and use B10 and E10 for everything.
And, by the way, my dad was a farmer in Michigan, so save your vitriol for people who actually do farmers, not people who questioin the viability of alcohol as a cost-saving way to reduce our dependency on foreign oil, OK?
For the Can's...I just filled up with V-power 91 Wed. night (and I'm a die-hard Sunoco 94 fan)....nice smooth power...engine sounds a little different. Nice power although car is not as 'edgy' as on 94, it runs nice....may try another couple of tankfulls. I use FP. So far, economy seems up (after 150 miles on the first tank)...
FYI (and this was news to me), BP claims that Amoco Ultimate meets and "goes beyond" Top Tier standards. They also point out that Top Tier is purely a detergency standard and not a complete measure of fuel quality.
Why BP/Amoco is not Top Tier certified may mean that its other grades do not meet the standard. But BP is very direct that their Ultimate grade does.
So for anyone needing a Top Tier compliant premium in the mid-Atlantic, it's an option. That's good news in our household, as we really like how this fuel runs in our vehicles.
Why BP/Amoco is not Top Tier certified may mean that its other grades do not meet the standard. But BP is very direct that their Ultimate grade does.
So for anyone needing a Top Tier compliant premium in the mid-Atlantic, it's an option. That's good news in our household, as we really like how this fuel runs in our vehicles.
I've been running Husky 90 octane, 10% ethanol, for the past couple of months in my 95 Maxima with absolutely no problems. It is marketed in British Columbia at the same price as 87 octane, or about 6.5 cents/litre less than the competitors 89 octane and 11.5 cents/litre less than 91 octane and is close enough to 91 octane for me. I haven't noticed any adverse effects on fuel economy or performance.
Maybe you guys got a lot of deposit on your engine or driving only short trip. I found that the better the gas, the poorer the economy, always.
The gas that gives me the best power in the following order:
76
Shell
Chevron
Arco
Quik Stop, Safeway (grocery store), Rotten Robbie, etc
The gas that gives me the best economy in the following order:
Quik Stop, Safeway (grocery store), Rotten Robbie, etc
Chevron
Arco
Shell
76
I think it has to do with oxygenate content, 76 back then put a lot of "pro power" in there and has those no MTBE ads, which means they use a **** load of ethanol instead. They gives you more power, but the consequence is more fuel is burn, enough said.
Generic station give you less detergent (oxygenate, or whatever you want to call it), so more gas is in there, and it is better for fuel economy.
The gas that gives me the best power in the following order:
76
Shell
Chevron
Arco
Quik Stop, Safeway (grocery store), Rotten Robbie, etc
The gas that gives me the best economy in the following order:
Quik Stop, Safeway (grocery store), Rotten Robbie, etc
Chevron
Arco
Shell
76
I think it has to do with oxygenate content, 76 back then put a lot of "pro power" in there and has those no MTBE ads, which means they use a **** load of ethanol instead. They gives you more power, but the consequence is more fuel is burn, enough said.
Generic station give you less detergent (oxygenate, or whatever you want to call it), so more gas is in there, and it is better for fuel economy.
Kind of a dumb question, but is V-Power to Shell as Techron is to Chevron?
Just wondering if every grade of Shell has this V-Power or only their premium grade.
Thanks!
Just wondering if every grade of Shell has this V-Power or only their premium grade.
Thanks!
"Oh woe is everyone that is "forced" by the evil corn lobby to burn that terrible ethanol in their cars"
Golly, the farmers should lead the way to energy independence by shunning those enclosed air-conditioned cab tractors and hitching up Dobbins to the plow and get to work on that lower 40!!!!
Giddyup!!!!
Golly, the farmers should lead the way to energy independence by shunning those enclosed air-conditioned cab tractors and hitching up Dobbins to the plow and get to work on that lower 40!!!!
Giddyup!!!!
Ethanol is an unsound theory, I am all for alternative fuels just not this one. We should not use something JUST because it is alternative it should be efficient and do a good job. Not only does ethanol hurt milage and not reduce cost it is heavily sudsidized by tax dollars meaning it really costs you more, and is energy negative. The hydroscopic problem doesn't bother me in my cars but in things like, my boat and lawn equipment that go through a tank more slowely it can be a problem. Fuel systems since the 80s have been designed to handle alcohol so damage concerns are nearly non0existent exept for the problem in the Milwaukee area where the ethanol producers were leaving some sulfuric acid in which was ruining injectors on some cars.
People who look into the science of it see the flaws in ethanol it is the corn lobby and blind greenies that support it. As for biodiesel it is great IF it is made from recycled products like used cooking oil, if made directly from crops it is energy negative. By recycleing I suppose you aren't changing the energy negative thing but you are effectively putting "garbage" to productive use always a good thing.
People who look into the science of it see the flaws in ethanol it is the corn lobby and blind greenies that support it. As for biodiesel it is great IF it is made from recycled products like used cooking oil, if made directly from crops it is energy negative. By recycleing I suppose you aren't changing the energy negative thing but you are effectively putting "garbage" to productive use always a good thing.
I was using premium 97 RON gas and Castro GTX 20/50W oil for my 40 year old air-cool bug and the engine oil gets pretty black after being driven for 1,000 KM and it has been like that for years. I drive to work daily (25 KM one way trip) via highway at leisure speed of 60 KM, 5 day work week, and change engine oil every 60 days
) because the oil only cost me $1.80 for 2.5 liters from my next door neighborhood mechanic that bulk purchase them in 50 gallon drum from Castro.
Recently, after changing the engine oil, I switch to Shell V-power and noticed that even after 1,000 KM, the oil still look golden clean, the exhaust pipe have no black sooth residue and gray clean—the thing was, I didn’t do anything to the engine (electronic distributor), change the spark plugs or touch the carburetor.
Did I get better power or any other noticeable improvement with V-power—I’m not too sure about that but the oil and exhaust is definitely cleaner—that I am 100% certain.
Recently, after changing the engine oil, I switch to Shell V-power and noticed that even after 1,000 KM, the oil still look golden clean, the exhaust pipe have no black sooth residue and gray clean—the thing was, I didn’t do anything to the engine (electronic distributor), change the spark plugs or touch the carburetor.
Did I get better power or any other noticeable improvement with V-power—I’m not too sure about that but the oil and exhaust is definitely cleaner—that I am 100% certain.
I haven't seen straight gas for years, anywhere around Chicago or it's suburbs.
Believe me, I want to find some, and have had my eyes open for a long time.
You should hear my brother complain about the mileage drop and power loss when he comes up here from Texas [plenty of great gas there for a lot cheaper].
Believe me, I want to find some, and have had my eyes open for a long time.
You should hear my brother complain about the mileage drop and power loss when he comes up here from Texas [plenty of great gas there for a lot cheaper].
I have an Aunt and Uncle who make their own from used products, they enjoy "doing the right thing" and she spends all her time tending the farm so I think that it just makes sure her days are full more of the time because I know she ends up with some seasonal slack time.
Thank you for the link I read much of it and now have a better understanding of how it all works.
Thank you for the link I read much of it and now have a better understanding of how it all works.
I drive an '04 Mazda6 that has been fed Shell 87 since day 1. Very recently, a full tank (16 of 18gal) of Vpower went by accident. FP60 is also in the mix.
Historically, the 3.0L Ford Duratec runs best with regular gas. I'd like to believe the Vpower will give better mileage per their ad claims, but only time will tell.
Does the car's computer need to "get used to" the higher octane before I see improvements, or should I expect immediate results? If I do see immediate results, I will keep using Vpower and track it's performance in my car. I keep a detailed spreadsheet of my car's fuel history. See you later.
Historically, the 3.0L Ford Duratec runs best with regular gas. I'd like to believe the Vpower will give better mileage per their ad claims, but only time will tell.
Does the car's computer need to "get used to" the higher octane before I see improvements, or should I expect immediate results? If I do see immediate results, I will keep using Vpower and track it's performance in my car. I keep a detailed spreadsheet of my car's fuel history. See you later.
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