USUAL 8.8 Ford gear whine; RL Shockproof or LE1606

[10bears]

I found it somewhat interesting that the change to the Amsoil gear oil quieted the whine noticeably but mostly so after each heat cycle for the first 60 miles.

While I'm not noticing any reduction lately, I wonder if the gains might continue minutely for awhile.

I have a Pypes Super System on the car (M80 glasspack like mid mufflers; highly louvered huge axleback tip/mufflers called Pype Bombs). Oddly, while I'm dain brammiged and therefore very susceptible to noise, 52 (past the age of liking loud 'horse hockey' [replaces previously censored but non offensive language]), it is just TOO quiet. I should add it has stock cats and H pipe, so that is part of TOO quiet.

So I've ordered some cheap eBay straight through axle backs to replace the louvered monsters on there now.

Exhaust is the wrong frequency altogether, but maybe the louder exhaust will bury some of the gear whine..

 

[10bears]

[censored] son of a [censored] [censored] exhaust was too [censored] quiet..."

 

[10bears]

Now that's a post that SHOULD be "[censored]"! ;-) roflmao

 

[INDYMAC]

If the Amsoil is quieting your gears enough to satisfy, or at least reduce your trauma, stay with it. If the whine reappears, then it is probably shearing and you will need to replace.

The RL Heavy Duty Shookproof probably has a tackifier that will help hold more oil between the gears, up until a certain temperature and/or speed. It is thick and messy from what I've heard. It will take a while to clean up if you choose to try something else. I have never used this product, but I've seen a good UOA for it. It must have an aluminum compound additive. That's the only wear item that looked strange.

I'm a LE 1605 user and can attest that it is an excellent diff oil. It also has a tackifier, but is SAE 110. If you want real world protection, this stuff will do it for you. My S2000 has faint gear whine between 55-60 MPH in 6th gear while feathering the throttle. It might be there in other gears too, but I can't hear it with the additional engine noise. This is common in the S2000, so it's probably a tonal harmonic from the gear setting (4.10). Aftermarket 4.44, 4.56, 4.57, and 4.77 gears are reported to be much louder. The gear whine is temperature related with LE 1605. At operating temperature between 40-60F, there is no whine. But warmer outside temps will eventully produce the faint whine as described above. It could be that the viscosity change has an affect, or the tackifier is becoming less effective. In either case, I'd recommend that you try 1606 if you can get it. I did not know that they sold it by the quart like 1605.

Another gear oil that you might try is LE 9920. It's a 75W-140 GL5 that might stay in grade better than any other multi-vis. I have never tried it, but it's worth a look and available through Mag-Hytec by the quart.
http://products.lelubricants.com/item/extreme-pressure-2/synolec-gear-lubricant-9920/9920?&bc=100|1036|1083

Good luck with your car, and let us know how things work out for you.

 

[Jim Allen]

I'm a "retired" ASE Master Tech too with a specialization in gears and axles. I've never seen a gear oil eliminate a serious whine. At best, it's a reduction and when it did reduce it, it came back full force once the oil got used up. For the most part, I always recommended a R&P replacement for seriously whining gears.

That said, I did have one pretty remarkable transformation on a piece of my own equipment. It's a Woods chopper... think of it as a gigantic mower with an 8-foot diameter blade that you hook to the back of a tractor. Driving that blade is a pretty substantial gearbox. When this unit was only about three years old, the lower seal failed while I was using it. A tractor up to PTO speed (2000 rpm in this case... redline is 2400) is pretty noisy, not to mention the unit itself, so I didn't notice anything for a long while. Finally, I began to notice a whine over and above the usual cacophony, stopped, checked and found the gearbox dry and smoking hot but not loose or particularly rough feeling. Pulling the top cover showed the gears had gotten hot and turned blue but the roller bearings had not failed or suffered too much. I was in a hurry, so I replaced the lower seal (a hard enough job in itself) and refilled the unit with the gear oil it called for. Pretty noisy still, lot's louder than normal and couldbe heard over the other loud noise. Ran it for a while but remembered something a Lubrication Engineers guy told me about one of their products when I worked with them on a project. Dumped the gear oil again and filled it with the LE607, which was a straight 90 grade "industrial strength" gear oil with (a pretty pure base because it still had a -12 pour point) a moly-like additive LE called Almasol. In a short period of operation, the unit got quiet again.

The problem for you is that the LE607 is no longer made but check to see if the Almasol additive is still used in their gear oil. If I was going to try a cure in a bottle, I'd try the LE based on my experience.

 

[10bears]

Jim & Indymac,

Thanks very much for excellent info!

Indymac: The LE1604 and 1606 is being marketed by speedwaymotors dot com in gallons for 50 bucks each.

Jim: The pdf's listed for the above LE products do not show almasol listed. The proprietary additive mentioned for this series is called "duolec".

A tackifier is mentioned probably for climbing qualities.

Some reliable (to me) sources mention a quick reset of pinion preload as sometimes shutting up the oh so common gear whine in an 8.8. Not sure where Ford gets their Timken bearings, but IMHO bearing quality in general has taken a dive in the last 10 years.

Great input here and I think I'll take a multi-step approach and report back each step.

Maybe as follows subject to revision of course:

Get pinion preload back up to "used bearing" standard first. Not sure I can pull 200 to 400 ft pounds to pull down a crush sleeve anymore, but I can use cheater bar(s). Test; report.

Hang giant iron xmas tree "tuned" weights from the Ford TSB on whine; test; report.

Try LE1606; test; report.

It's a pet peeve at this point, so I'll probably go ahead and put some time into it.

If I thought a straight rebuild would fix it and keep it quiet, I'd go straight to that. But I don't think that with all the 8.8 problems being reported - both with aftermarket or OE gears.

For a not terribly HD axle design, I think the RP gear oil underwent some noticeable shearing during all the WOT data logging runs. There were in excess of 65 of those before the tuning got sorted out. So for the RP guys: I'm not throwin' bricks. I think anything would have sheared after that many full pulls with almost 12 psi boost. The RP came out "water like" after all that.

Again, input much appreciated!

Micke

 

[10bears]

I bought the car with 19,500 miles on it. It was supercharged from mile 1, but not intercooled. I added the Whipple/FRPP intercooler kit, relocated IAT, etc. Hence the re-tuning.

The car presently has 24,500 miles on it. Axle whine already? Really?

Just venting a bit. It has a fairly decent level of power, so the 8.8 probably has some excuses here.

As Jim mentioned, once hypoid gears start 'talkin', there is usually no total fix other than a rebuild. I agree. As Indymac mentioned, obtaining substantial reduction in noise might be the best I can hope for and at some point, I'll go ahead and accept that.

In some ways, I'm picking nits. 99% of non-mechanic drivers would probably attribute this noise to tire whine (it is not) and just blow it off. In fact, many drivers would not notice this particular noise at all. As it happens, I'm not yet tone deaf in this particular frequency range.. unfortunately? ;-)

Ok; now I need to pick up 3 feet of flat bar to hold the pinion flange..

I bought the car for something to tinker with, so I'm tinkerin' and having fun.

 

[INDYMAC]

Sounds like you found something useful to do Micke. Good luck with the project. As a note of caution, LE does not advertise 1606 to be available in Gallon jugs. I recommend that you contact LE to discuss the vendor you plan to purchase from, just to guard against a counterfeit product.

http://products.lelubricants.com/item/extreme-pressure-2/duolec-vari-purpose-gear-lubricants-1601-1609/1606?&bc=100|1083|1100

 

[10bears]

Link to mag-hytec's LE products was appreciated.

Here is url to speedwaymotors dot com selling a couple LE products by the gallon in case anyone needs it:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Lubrication-Engineers-Rearend-Lube-140W-1-Gallon,2161.html

PDF listed under speedway's "specs" tab suggests the 90w is LE1604 and the 140w is LE1606.

 

[INDYMAC]

Originally Posted By: 10bears
Link to mag-hytec's LE products was appreciated.

Here is link to speedwaymotors dot com selling a couple LE products in case anyone needs it:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Lubrication-Engineers-Rearend-Lube-140W-1-Gallon,2161.html

PDF listed under speedway's "specs" tab suggests the 90w is LE1604 and the 140w is LE1606.



See my previous post.

 

[10bears]

Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Sounds like you found something useful to do Micke. Good luck with the project. As a note of caution, LE does not advertise 1606 to be available in Gallon jugs. I recommend that you contact LE to discuss the vendor you plan to purchase from, just to guard against a counterfeit product.

http://products.lelubricants.com/item/extreme-pressure-2/duolec-vari-purpose-gear-lubricants-1601-1609/1606?&bc=100|1083|1100


Interesting, that. Will do some research before buying.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 10bears
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 10bears
"...I'd use the AMSOIL in the 75w140 flavour..."

That is what is in it now. About 100 miles on the Amsoil and it did quiet the whine significantly compared to the sheared? out RP.

Micke


Then it is likely about as good as it is going to get IMHO.


I suspect the Amsoil is really good stuff and it is brand new. Probably ought to run it awhile anyway.

I've got a pair of used "tuned iron" weights on the way here. The ones Ford used for the whine in the TSB. While it seems/feels to me like hanging on some really huge/heavy/ugly xmas tree ornaments, I'll give those a try. Though I may paint them up in christmasy colors before installation.. lol


Look anything like the big bugger they hung off the bottom of the fox 8.8's?

 

[10bears]

Overk1ll,

I had forgotten the fox bodies also used the weight bandaid for chronic/frequent whine problems. I owned a supercharged LX vert about 10 years ago but I just don't remember what those weights looked like.

The weights on the new gen 'stangs look like this: Driver's side looks like a giant rusted kidney bean. Pass side weight looks like some bizarre impressionist sculptor's nightmare; strange angular planes, tabs and horn like protrusions sticking out in weird locations. I suspect some engineering went into at least the pass side.. well, probably into both.

Come to think of it, I lived in Colorado Springs back then and had an excellent axle shop install 4.56 gears in the fox body vert's 8.8. Here's the twist: Stock gears in that axle whined pretty badly. 4.56's didn't make even a hint of noise - not even after over a hundred "stoplight grand prix" events out on Powers Race Track; oops, I meant Powers Blvd. (I don't drive like that any more - well, except when data logging for tuning ;-)

That guy really knew what he was doing and had a rep for taking his time to get most jobs 100% right. Of course, I doubt anyone has a perfect history with axles if they do enough of 'em; too many variables - and potential hidden problems with parts - especially modern junk bearings!

Unfortunately, I've heard that excellent axle tech is no longer around. Besides, I live about a 5 hr RT and 250 miles from Colo Spgs now.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 10bears
Overk1ll,

I had forgotten the fox bodies also used the weight bandaid for chronic/frequent whine problems. I owned a supercharged LX vert about 10 years ago but I just don't remember what those weights looked like.

The weights on the new gen 'stangs look like this: Driver's side looks like a giant rusted kidney bean. Pass side weight looks like some bizarre impressionist sculptor's nightmare; strange angular planes, tabs and horn like protrusions sticking out in weird locations. I suspect some engineering went into at least the pass side.. well, probably into both.

Come to think of it, I lived in Colorado Springs back then and had an excellent axle shop install 4.56 gears in the fox body vert's 8.8. Here's the twist: Stock gears in that axle whined pretty badly. 4.56's didn't make even a hint of noise - not even after over a hundred "stoplight grand prix" events out on Powers Race Track; oops, I meant Powers Blvd. (I don't drive like that any more - well, except when data logging for tuning ;-)

That guy really knew what he was doing and had a rep for taking his time to get most jobs 100% right. Of course, I doubt anyone has a perfect history with axles if they do enough of 'em; too many variables - and potential hidden problems with parts - especially modern junk bearings!

Unfortunately, I've heard that excellent axle tech is no longer around. Besides, I live about a 5 hr RT and 250 miles from Colo Spgs now.



Yup, the fox ones were goofy looking, but not THAT goofy, LOL!

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: 10bears

Much appreciated if you would ask your friend with the Cobra! FWIW, I think some Cobra guys have gotten some good improvement with the RL Shockproof. Maybe mention that if it looks like Pepto Bismol in there, then that is already what is in it.



My buddy's Cobra has 4.10s and has RP in it, but he has no idea what weight. Last owner put in the 4.10s and RP.

 

[10bears]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: 10bears

Much appreciated if you would ask your friend with the Cobra! FWIW, I think some Cobra guys have gotten some good improvement with the RL Shockproof. Maybe mention that if it looks like Pepto Bismol in there, then that is already what is in it.



My buddy's Cobra has 4.10s and has RP in it, but he has no idea what weight. Last owner put in the 4.10s and RP.


Thanks for the info!

 

[10bears]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 10bears
Overk1ll,

I had forgotten the fox bodies also used the weight bandaid for chronic/frequent whine problems. I owned a supercharged LX vert about 10 years ago but I just don't remember what those weights looked like.

The weights on the new gen 'stangs look like this: Driver's side looks like a giant rusted kidney bean. Pass side weight looks like some bizarre impressionist sculptor's nightmare; strange angular planes, tabs and horn like protrusions sticking out in weird locations. I suspect some engineering went into at least the pass side.. well, probably into both.

Come to think of it, I lived in Colorado Springs back then and had an excellent axle shop install 4.56 gears in the fox body vert's 8.8. Here's the twist: Stock gears in that axle whined pretty badly. 4.56's didn't make even a hint of noise - not even after over a hundred "stoplight grand prix" events out on Powers Race Track; oops, I meant Powers Blvd. (I don't drive like that any more - well, except when data logging for tuning ;-)

That guy really knew what he was doing and had a rep for taking his time to get most jobs 100% right. Of course, I doubt anyone has a perfect history with axles if they do enough of 'em; too many variables - and potential hidden problems with parts - especially modern junk bearings!

Unfortunately, I've heard that excellent axle tech is no longer around. Besides, I live about a 5 hr RT and 250 miles from Colo Spgs now.



Yup, the fox ones were goofy looking, but not THAT goofy, LOL!

That weight in your photo definitely looks VERY different from what they are putting on the 2005 and later stangs.

Was that weight in your pic the one that used to get bolted onto the center of the diff as a single weight? Or I guess it is likely I'm forgettin' something again..

I'll snap a couple of pics of the used weights I bought when they arrive.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 10bears
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 10bears
Overk1ll,

I had forgotten the fox bodies also used the weight bandaid for chronic/frequent whine problems. I owned a supercharged LX vert about 10 years ago but I just don't remember what those weights looked like.

The weights on the new gen 'stangs look like this: Driver's side looks like a giant rusted kidney bean. Pass side weight looks like some bizarre impressionist sculptor's nightmare; strange angular planes, tabs and horn like protrusions sticking out in weird locations. I suspect some engineering went into at least the pass side.. well, probably into both.

Come to think of it, I lived in Colorado Springs back then and had an excellent axle shop install 4.56 gears in the fox body vert's 8.8. Here's the twist: Stock gears in that axle whined pretty badly. 4.56's didn't make even a hint of noise - not even after over a hundred "stoplight grand prix" events out on Powers Race Track; oops, I meant Powers Blvd. (I don't drive like that any more - well, except when data logging for tuning ;-)

That guy really knew what he was doing and had a rep for taking his time to get most jobs 100% right. Of course, I doubt anyone has a perfect history with axles if they do enough of 'em; too many variables - and potential hidden problems with parts - especially modern junk bearings!

Unfortunately, I've heard that excellent axle tech is no longer around. Besides, I live about a 5 hr RT and 250 miles from Colo Spgs now.



Yup, the fox ones were goofy looking, but not THAT goofy, LOL!

That weight in your photo definitely looks VERY different from what they are putting on the 2005 and later stangs.

Was that weight in your pic the one that used to get bolted onto the center of the diff as a single weight? Or I guess it is likely I'm forgettin' something again..

I'll snap a couple of pics of the used weights I bought when they arrive.


Yes, it bolts to the underside of the pumpkin.

 

[10bears]

Overk1ll,

As promised:

Here are pics of those bizarre weights. The casting numbers google only to some references in a 2007-2009 Shelby GT500 forum, so I figure the car will be faster now. Har.. actually, these weights supposedly came off a 7.5" axle so I doubt that was in a GT500!

Enough clownin'; pics:

Passenger side "impressionist sculptor's nightmare" weight:

Driver's side weight:

 

[10bears]

Even when bolted to the axle housing as above, the weights ring like steel when struck with a wrench. Makes me wonder if they are some sort of cast steel like armasteel or some such versus cast iron..?

The bolts holding the weights have a torque spec of 60 ft lbs. I installed them with red loctite, too.