US vs EU service manual oil viscosity differences on same engines.

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No, we don't have CAFE over here. But we do have EU-imposed CO2 limits which the manufacturers have to adibe by, or be heavily fined. Simply-put, fleet sales average must be 130 g/km with the specific limit defined by the average weight of the cars sold; so, for example, JLR get a higher limit to meet and FIAT get a lower one. Every gram over the limit is up to €90 fine (and that's the total of all grams over the limit from all cars sold).

So viscosity is a big focus over here too and OEMs are rushing to 0W-20 (and lower). Yes, we're behind the US in going this thin, but it is not the free-for-all some seem to imply.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Trav
Similar temperatures, same engine, no CAFE. Personally if they allow a 5w40 I would run 5w30 or 0w40 in this engine, a cold 0w20 is thicker than hot 0w40, the VVT system couldn't care less.


Where is the car driven city driving for 15 minutes then shut off for hours the majority of the time or is the majority at near WOT for hours?

There is more chance of longer drives in Texas, Portugal is a small country, the only reason for xw20 in the US for this engine is CAFE, the fact up to a xw40 elsewhere proves it was not designed for Xw20 exclusively only that it can.
 
Originally Posted by JavierH19
Hello everyone, I have a 2016 Mitsubishi outlander with the na 2.4L 4b12 and it calls only for 0w-20 which I use but I notice the engine is a bit loud and doesn't sound healthy...


No offence man, but it ain't oil! That's just Mitsubishi. An unrefined, relatively crude engine that's pretty much the same from the mid-2000's if not the 90's is still going to be crude and unrefined in 2019. You can use 5W-50 full syn refined from unicorn tears, and it's still going to sound like that. That being said, it'll probably run forever regardless of what you put in it...

There's a reason why Mitsubishi is dying in the US, and one of the local dealerships here is staffless building across the Hyundai lot where all of the actual salesmen are, and it ain't CAFE. It's because Mitsu wants to sell you pretty much the same 2008 model year Lancer in 2019...
 
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Originally Posted by weasley
No, we don't have CAFE over here. But we do have EU-imposed CO2 limits which the manufacturers have to adibe by, or be heavily fined. Simply-put, fleet sales average must be 130 g/km with the specific limit defined by the average weight of the cars sold; so, for example, JLR get a higher limit to meet and FIAT get a lower one. Every gram over the limit is up to €90 fine (and that's the total of all grams over the limit from all cars sold).

So viscosity is a big focus over here too and OEMs are rushing to 0W-20 (and lower). Yes, we're behind the US in going this thin, but it is not the free-for-all some seem to imply.


You also don't change your oil nearly as often as Americans do and oil is vastly more expensive over there. So, it ain't apples to apples. I can get Mobil 1 EP and EP HM 0W-20 (which is PAO based and not really much thinner than many 5W-30s) for about $17 after rebates, and I think THAT is high!!!..
 
I noticed the same thing with my 2018 Nissan Frontier PU with the 4.0L V-6. US manual specifies 5w-30 oil. In the same manual under Mexico specifications it has an old fashioned temperature/viscosity chart specifying everything from 5w-30 to 20w-50.

I'm using PP 5w-30 at the moment but when I start hauling my travel trailer in the summer I may try a 0w-40 or 5w-40.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I wonder if the M1 EP 0W20 and 5W20 have the same exact chemistries?

No, M1 EP 5W-20 has less than half the PAO M1 EP 0W-20 has according to the MSDSs.


Are you using the regular EP or the high mileage version? This is one of the oils that I have been thinking about trying in my Accord.
 
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I wonder if the M1 EP 0W20 and 5W20 have the same exact chemistries?
No, M1 EP 5W-20 has less than half the PAO M1 EP 0W-20 has according to the MSDSs.
Are you using the regular EP or the high mileage version? This is one of the oils that I have been thinking about trying in my Accord.

I'm using the regular M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS.

All or most contain some POE ester (2 - 10%). Most may contain some Group I solvent. All except M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 use Group III for the rest of the base oil. M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 are unlikely to have any Group III or GTL.

M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO
 
Originally Posted by JavierH19
Hello everyone, I have a 2016 Mitsubishi outlander with the na 2.4L 4b12 and it calls only for 0w-20 which I use but I notice the engine is a bit loud and doesn't sound healthy. I paid for it in full since I got it stupid cheap new since the dealership was closing out and was very attracted to the warranty but I still want it to live a long life.

I downloaded the Portuguese manual of the exact same model, engine variant, and year because I remembered reading somewhere that European engines use thicker oil than the US ones although they're exactly the same engine. I checked the section and saw that the 4b12 uses 0w-20 to 5w-40. I was delighted to see my engine could use thicker oil. I am weary to do so because I think the US version of the 4b12 has the vvt tuned and optimized to use only 0w-20 and only that and I don't know if the solenoids and computer will like thicker oil.

Amazingly in all service guides Mitsubishi is very very conservative and demands 3,750m/6km or 3 month full synthetic oil and filter changes since i guess they don't want the engine to fail because they have a 10yr/100,000 mile warranty. Nonetheless I change the Pennzoil platinum and stp extended at every year or 10k whichever first and I rack up 6-7k a year.

Is it safe for me to use thicker oil in a US engine when the exact same engine in Europe does. For any Europeans reading this what oil viscosity and grades are most common or normal.

Someone from Europe mentioned here that there is law in EU that states that manufacturers are forbidden from recommending a specific viscosity in Europe. Therefore, apparently, specifying a whole range of viscosities is required under EU law. Probably, in other places around the world, manufacturers specify a range of viscosities for the same reason. Silk mentioned that 0W-20 costs as much as gold in Australia. I wouldn't be using it either if that was the case.

There is also a culture in Europe that people and mechanics are used to putting 10W-40 in any engine. That habit probably goes back to the 1970s, when the gas-guzzling (10 - 20 MPG?) obsolete little 1.4 - 1.6 L Fiat engines were filled with 20W-50. I go there every year and I feel pity when I see the little modern engines that normally run 0W-20 suffering from a 5% drop in fuel economy and low-end horsepower because they fill them with 10W-40. They probably sound louder, too.

You can experiment with 5W-40 but chances are that you won't benefit anything from it. Wear will probably be similar and your car will start falling apart long before you see oil-related problems. You will see a 5% drop in performance and fuel economy and a worse-sounding-and-feeling engine though. Probably, the most important thing regarding oil is that you need to change it frequently enough, depending on the oil, car, and driving conditions.

The only exception would be if you're already having oil-related problems, such as oil consumption. You are then encouraged to experiment with thicker oil to see if it helps. Also, with a oil-consuming engine, it makes no sense to use expensive oil. I would put 15W-40 and keep topping it off.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan


M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO



Anyone else think that MAYBE there are too many flavours of M1 20 grade oil ... ???
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by Gokhan


M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO



Anyone else think that MAYBE there are too many flavours of M1 20 grade oil ... ???




Too many product lines period, irrespective of grade.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I wonder if the M1 EP 0W20 and 5W20 have the same exact chemistries?
No, M1 EP 5W-20 has less than half the PAO M1 EP 0W-20 has according to the MSDSs.
Are you using the regular EP or the high mileage version? This is one of the oils that I have been thinking about trying in my Accord.

I'm using the regular M1 EP 0W-20 SN PLUS.

All or most contain some POE ester (2 - 10%). Most may contain some Group I solvent. All except M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 use Group III for the rest of the base oil. M1 AFE 0W-16, M1 EP 0W-20, and M1 AP 0W-20 are unlikely to have any Group III or GTL.

M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO


How about the base oil makeup of M1 EP 10W30?
 
Shouldn't it be Group III+ Visom?
wink.gif
 
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