US Postal Service suspending pension contributions

[6.7 CTD]

I don't have an agenda. Just providing facts.

We no longer communicate as a nation in print mail format for anything that matters. Therefore anything the USPS is moving doesn't matter and therefor should not be a federal government function. Federal government functions need to be for the specific purpose of maintaining the republic, and the USPS is no longer needed for that purpose. Sorry if that makes you unhappy but its true. Nothing you have said refutes that.

To add to the attrition is in the last 8 years the USPS business has cratered precipitously. This would be very difficult for any business to overcome. But even that is not my argument.

Your trying to blame the failure on an obscure benefit funding policy change implemented 20 years ago. Even if that were accurate, its well published fact that USPS pension is underfunded and health benefits significantly underfunded, and we the people no doubt will end up paying for that as well. So your argument is we need to continue underfunding them to help keep a failing enterprise we don't need afloat? That makes even less sense.

None of this makes any derogatory statements to the organization or its employees. Time has simply passed it by.

Why so passionate about this if it’s not funded by your tax dollars? Kind of odd. Anyway, I’m done discussing this; with you anyway. You’ve repeated the same thing through 20 posts. I’m sure the others are tired of this as well. I will agree to disagree.

 

[nickaluch]

My brother in-law just last year has collected his post office pension longer than he worked for the post office and it's the only job he ever had straight out of highschool

 

[SC Maintenance]

Why so passionate about this if it’s not funded by your tax dollars? Kind of odd. Anyway, I’m done discussing this; with you anyway. You’ve repeated the same thing through 20 posts. I’m sure the others are tired of this as well. I will agree to disagree.

You said you weren't discussing it anymore a few posts back.

Just here to correct the disinformation with actual facts. Everyone needs a hobby.

 

[PWMDMD]

I don't have an agenda. Just providing facts.

We no longer communicate as a nation in print mail format for anything that matters. Therefore anything the USPS is moving doesn't matter and therefor should not be a federal government function. Federal government functions need to be for the specific purpose of maintaining the republic, and the USPS is no longer needed for that purpose. Sorry if that makes you unhappy but its true. Nothing you have said refutes that.

To add to the attrition is in the last 8 years the USPS business has cratered precipitously. This would be very difficult for any business to overcome. But even that is not my argument.

Your trying to blame the failure on an obscure benefit funding policy change implemented 20 years ago. Even if that were accurate, its well published fact that USPS pension is underfunded and health benefits significantly underfunded, and we the people no doubt will end up paying for that as well. So your argument is we need to continue underfunding them to help keep a failing enterprise we don't need afloat? That makes even less sense.

None of this makes any derogatory statements to the organization or its employees. Time has simply passed it by.

Wait, what? I'm constantly being told from banks, financial institutions, the state and the federal government (IRS, jury duty, court papers, DMV, Social Security, etc, etc, etc), to disregard all email and phone calls and that they will ONLY communicate with me about official business through USPS.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Wait, what? I'm constantly being told from banks, financial institutions, the state and the federal government (IRS, jury duty, court papers, DMV, Social Security, etc, etc, etc), to disregard all email and phone calls and that they will ONLY communicate with me about official business through USPS.

Well I did say anything important

Banks use electronic communications all the time. They just tell you not to react to incoming email and phone calls or click on links. Only call the official number for example.

Sold a House in 2013 out of town - used DocuSign - neither sent or received anything via USPS.

I just did my taxes electronically - paid fed, get and refund from the state - all electronically - no mail.

There may still be need for some paper to move around but still not the federal governments charter. Jury duty might be as good an example as has been gotten around here, however I am sure the county could get a spectacular discounted rate from UPS. I work for a not very large company and we get very good rates from UPS.

 

[rijndael]

I just did my taxes electronically - paid fed, get and refund from the state - all electronically - no mail.

The email notices, and backend work, were from a private company who submitted it on your behalf, it was not an communications from the IRS.

 

[Mackelroy]

We have stopped using letters as our primary communication. So no post office needed for the function of our country - unlike roads, water and internet. As for telephone - no hard wire lines to new developments either - there VoIP or cell. Stuff evolves.

Thats not true , brand new subdivisions still get Hard wired electrical, fibre cable lines, and additional Google fibre in some places ect.

Now the 2 wire telephone line , that may be gone, but it was replaced with other Hard wiring

Maybe your area some Developer tried, no wiring, it would suk to be tied to wireless only.

 

[Mackelroy]

In your recent comment, you mentioned the postal service pensions. I explicitly stated why I believe this is very much relevant to the topic I discussed regarding the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act.

Also, as someone who frequently sends bills through the mail and is in my early 40s, I find your assertion that no one is mailing anything to be somewhat inaccurate. Yes, I buy stamps often.

Seeing that you already have a preconceived notion about unions, the postal service, government, etc. I’m going to end this here.

\

I agree, I pay some bills online, and wife pays some by check. Granted more are getting paid online nowadays. But I still need checks.

My employer and im sure many others, still routinely receives payments by check from customers.

Total nonsense to say people dont use stamps any more, they do maybe not as much, I agree.

I bought a couple 20 stamp books, for my self in the last year, I mailed my payment to IRS by check and stamped mail.

Yes I could have used other method, But Who cares, my business. Im sure im not alone.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Thats not true , brand new subdivisions still get Hard wired electrical, fibre cable lines, and additional Google fibre in some places ect.

Now the 2 wire telephone line , that may be gone, but it was replaced with other Hard wiring

Maybe your area some Developer tried, no wiring, it would suk to be tied to wireless only.

What do you think VoIP is.

And the fiber is pulled by a private company

 

[rijndael]

Right. Fiber is not a public utility like the copper phone lines.

 

[Mackelroy]

What do you think VoIP is.

And the fiber is pulled by a private company

whats your point?

I had the 2 wire disabled ATT phone, and just use a Cell Phone

Im just pointing out, Hard lines still go to house in new subs, they can use ATT or another network supplier for streaming or cable , or a home phone voip, if they choose.

I tell you what though, when cable goes out, cell phones go out, Viop goes out, Ive seen a Hardwired 2 wire att line still operational.

 

[alarmguy]

Are you proposing to alter the carriers’ days off from Sunday and Tuesday (for example) to Saturday and Sunday? While this change may be appreciated by the mail carrier, it does not impact their weekly hours or provide any cost savings.

It’s been pointed out five day a week delivery removes the need for a second mail carrier required to deliver mail six days a week.
As @SC Maintenance also mentioned

The savings eliminating that extra person is massive. We’re not only talking about weekly salary, we’re talking about benefits, such as health and retirement. We are also talking about the massive reduction in overtime.
Contrary to another post from you, I don’t think you thought about the amount of overtime carriers work on certain routes when a replacement can’t be found for their day off.

The volume of mail in a postal carriers workday is much less than it used to be yet that carrier still has to bring that mail six days a week to each address.

The volume of mail delivered by the typical mail carrier today is 46% less than 30 years ago.
Yet that mail carrier still has to go to each and every address six days a week
https://www.uspsoig.gov/reports/white-papers/analysis-historical-mail-volume-trends

It is completely insane to continue six days a week delivery and it should’ve been cut out a long time ago

 

[SC Maintenance]

Yes I could have used other method, But Who cares, my business. Im sure im not alone.

The point of this thread is the USPS has $120B of unfunded pension liabilities and now they have stopped funding it entirely and hence will grow even more. Ultimately the taxpayer will be on the hook for those liabilities - so its every taxpayers business. The disingenuous notion that "it doesn't cost taxpayers anything" simply lacks the "Yet" part.

As well, when you mail a "hard check" Betty Lou the book-keeper scans the check with a special scanner which OCR's the routing and account number and enters it automatically while saving an image of the check for posterity. The only difference is who enters the numbers - its still electronic. Also very insecure. And no, my employer does not take checks anymore and hasn't in a long time, but were entirely B2B?

whats your point?

The poster said that roads, water and telephone were required items the government sponsors. Phone is not. My house was built in 2014 and has no copper phone lines. Yes I can use my private internet to make a voice call, but that fiber or cable wasn't pulled for phone, its just a side benefit.

 

[6.7 CTD]

It’s been pointed out five day a week delivery removes the need for a second mail carrier required to deliver mail six days a week.
As @SC Maintenance also mentioned

The savings eliminating that extra person is massive. We’re not only talking about weekly salary, we’re talking about benefits, such as health and retirement. We are also talking about the massive reduction in overtime.
Contrary to another post from you, I don’t think you thought about the amount of overtime carriers work on certain routes when a replacement can’t be found for their day off.

The volume of mail in a postal carriers workday is much less than it used to be yet that carrier still has to bring that mail six days a week to each address.

The volume of mail delivered by the typical mail carrier today is 46% less than 30 years ago.
Yet that male carrier still has to go to each and every address six days a week
https://www.uspsoig.gov/reports/white-papers/analysis-historical-mail-volume-trends

It is completely insane to continue six days a week delivery and it should’ve been cut out a long time ago

Switching to 5-day mail delivery doesn't simply eliminate a "second carrier" per route. Carriers already work 5 days/week with built-in days off (Tuesday off, Saturday on as I previously stated). Relief comes mostly from lower-cost non-career assistants and limited overtime—not full-time "extra" people on every route. Changing days off doesn't cut total weekly hours or payroll proportionally.

Independent reviews of past 5-day proposals showed overstated savings. USPS once projected ~$3B+ in annual net savings, but the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) pegged realistic net savings at only about $1.7B—roughly 45% lower—due to optimistic assumptions about absorbing Saturday's workload without extra costs or overtime. GAO noted savings depend heavily on implementation details, with risks of new workload issues.

Compressing the week's mail into 5 days raises daily volume by ~20% on average. This can extend routes, create more overtime on peak days (especially Fridays), and require route adjustments—directly offsetting claimed OT reductions. Packages (which have grown dramatically) complicate things further: USPS would likely keep Saturday package delivery for competitiveness, so many routes and staffing needs wouldn't vanish.

The 46% drop in market-dominant mail volume (letters, ads, etc.) since 2008 is real, but total deliveries include surging packages, which are more labor-intensive. USPS continues 6-day delivery for both under current law and its Delivering for America plan. Past cost-cutting (network optimization, workhour reductions) has already delivered billions in savings without changing delivery frequency—suggesting 5-day gains would be smaller and messier today.

While eliminating a delivery day may sound beneficial, lower mail density makes 6-day service less efficient per piece, but the actual financial benefit of dropping Saturday mail is far less dramatic than "eliminate one full person + benefits + all OT." Workload shifts and package realities limit the upside. Simply reshuffling days off doesn't magically shrink the payroll.

 

[alarmguy]

Switching to 5-day mail delivery doesn't simply eliminate a "second carrier" per route. Carriers already work 5 days/week with built-in days off (Tuesday off, Saturday on as I previously stated). Relief comes mostly from lower-cost non-career assistants and limited overtime—not full-time "extra" people on every route. Changing days off doesn't cut total weekly hours or payroll proportionally.

Independent reviews of past 5-day proposals showed overstated savings. USPS once projected ~$3B+ in annual net savings, but the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC) pegged realistic net savings at only about $1.7B—roughly 45% lower—due to optimistic assumptions about absorbing Saturday's workload without extra costs or overtime. GAO noted savings depend heavily on implementation details, with risks of new workload issues.

Compressing the week's mail into 5 days raises daily volume by ~20% on average. This can extend routes, create more overtime on peak days (especially Fridays), and require route adjustments—directly offsetting claimed OT reductions. Packages (which have grown dramatically) complicate things further: USPS would likely keep Saturday package delivery for competitiveness, so many routes and staffing needs wouldn't vanish.

The 46% drop in market-dominant mail volume (letters, ads, etc.) since 2008 is real, but total deliveries include surging packages, which are more labor-intensive. USPS continues 6-day delivery for both under current law and its Delivering for America plan. Past cost-cutting (network optimization, workhour reductions) has already delivered billions in savings without changing delivery frequency—suggesting 5-day gains would be smaller and messier today.

While eliminating a delivery day may sound beneficial, lower mail density makes 6-day service less efficient per piece, but the actual financial benefit of dropping Saturday mail is far less dramatic than "eliminate one full person + benefits + all OT." Workload shifts and package realities limit the upside. Simply reshuffling days off doesn't magically shrink the payroll.

I can see how the way my post was written the reason why you posted what you did in the first sentence.
You need 1/6 less workforce by eliminating 6 day deliveries this is massive savings

I don’t care about independent studies. More so when it comes with corruption of a federal workforce. Let’s start with five day delivery. It’s easy to call a study independent.
We are talking about delivering an envelope to every single address in the nation six days a week when that can be done in five days

I don’t think delivering packages holds any water.
The profitability for delivering packages can be much greater than forcing a letter carrier to go to every address in the United States every day of the week when it’s not needed
Delivering a package is address specific and not everybody on the block
The results, profitability in it since it is address specific and not every house on the block

Here is something to think about.
Can anyone honestly believe that FedEx or UPS would want to take over six day letter delivery to every address in the country?
As well as having an oversight government board

By the way, five day delivery is coming. Problem with government is it takes 20 years for something that should’ve been done 15 years ago.

 

[andrew_j]

Its no longer required infrastructure.

75 agencies have been closed over our history. We used to have agencies the regulated things like the quality and weight of gold and silver coins - went away when we stopped using those coins as our primary money.

We have stopped using letters as our primary communication. So no post office needed for the function of our country - unlike roads, water and internet. As for telephone - no hard wire lines to new developments either - there VoIP or cell. Stuff evolves.

The primary mechanism of government communication to people IS letters. Think IRS, State Department , Social Security or any agency . Email, calls etc is simply is not acceptable ….. there has been no reliable alternative out there currently . They have added notifications via text.


The challenge is cell, voip etc has not covered entire country so hard wires for Internet are required to maintain communication. Until this is finished it should remain and hopefully funding exists to help along.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The primary mechanism of government communication to people IS letters. Think IRS, State Department , Social Security or any agency . Email, calls etc is simply is not acceptable ….. there has been no reliable alternative out there currently . They have added notifications via text.


The challenge is cell, voip etc has not covered entire country so hard wires for Internet are required to maintain communication. Until this is finished it should remain and hopefully funding exists to help along.

At some point the government will need to step into the 21st century. If I can transact a house out of state paperless, or trillions of stocks and bonds get transacted every day without paper. Want to buy a government bond - 100% paperless, hasn't been a paper option in decades - its unsecure.

I suppose at some point there going to need to set up a secure blockchain of sorts and everyone will need a digital key. I am sure many will call it the mark of the beast.

Option B will be to scale down the post office to only handle important, secure documents, which will be far more expensive. Congress will need to figure out the way to pay for it.

 

[gman2304]

My wife and I love her USPS retirement pension! It’s electronically deposited into our bank account every month like clockwork and includes a nice COLA every January. We’re both card carrying Medicare members but have never used it because she still carries her USPS health, dental, hospitalization and life insurance whose premiums are deducted from her pension at a fraction of the cost of what we could get on the open market, AKA the Cadillac plan. These bi monthly USPS rants remind me of the old saying { It depends on whose ox is getting gored } !

 

[Pew]

whats your point?

I had the 2 wire disabled ATT phone, and just use a Cell Phone

Im just pointing out, Hard lines still go to house in new subs, they can use ATT or another network supplier for streaming or cable , or a home phone voip, if they choose.

I tell you what though, when cable goes out, cell phones go out, Viop goes out, Ive seen a Hardwired 2 wire att line still operational.

I believe you're both saying the same thing. Utility lines are still being laid but new copper phone lines to new subdivisions afaik are not.

We got rid of our old comdial pbx system for voip over the lockdown because at&t made the monthly cost three times more than our phone vendor voip. I think they said we were the last in our office highrise to move from copper.

 

[PandaBear]

Why do we even need a post office? Maybe we should just disband it. I can’t remember the last time I got anything important in the mail. Decades ago maybe.

Because there are reasons anyone in a country with functional legal system would need to have a postal service.

It doesn't mean that they have to send mail from anywhere to anywhere flat rate within 3 days. That's a ridiculous demand that make things expensive and low quality. We should let USPS charge prices based on location and profitability and set a schedule and price that the locals vote for and let each place either subsidize their own location or cut service (reduce delivery frequency, for example).

Charging mail from Alaska to Hawaii the same price as local business to home on the same stamp within the same time is ridiculous.