Update: Mobil 1 Group III

[ekpolk]

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(...snip...)And neither says a thing about any other Mobil 1 formula.
(...snip...)

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Alas, Mobil hasn't said anything about any Mobil 1 formula either -- nothing meaningful anyway. . .

 

[Mickey_M]

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Alas, Mobil hasn't said anything about any Mobil 1 formula either -- .....

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Given the wild interpretations on this board, that's completely understandable.



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[Lonnie]

Could some of these additives in a 'synthetic' oil be floating in GI or GII carrier?

 

[SubLGT]

Mickey M, is your real name Lee Raymond?

 

[G-MAN]

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Remember, Group III is "mineral" in much the same way PAO is "mineral". They both begin with crude and undergo fundamental molecular changes.

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That is not true at all. PAO does not "begin with crude." It starts off with ethylene gas molecules.

 

[Mickey_M]

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Mickey M, is your real name Lee Raymond?

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I keep waiting for George Lincoln Rockwell to show up in the thread.



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[buster]

I think all of this makes sense when you factor in that GTL is around the corner. (2011??) XOM will slowly ween off the PAO market and move away from PAO's. Tom even stated that they are no longer selling PAO's.

 

[Mickey_M]

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Remember, Group III is "mineral" in much the same way PAO is "mineral". They both begin with crude and undergo fundamental molecular changes.

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That is not true at all. PAO does not "begin with crude." It starts off with ethylene gas molecules.

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There are six commercial processes which oligomerize ethylene to linear alpha olefins.

One of them, that of Sasol Ltd., a South African oil company,employs Fischer-Tropsch synthesis to make PAO directly from crude.

The other commercial processes all rely ultimately on crude as the starting feed stock, although coal, natural gas, and other feed stocks could be used.




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[Mickey_M]

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Tom even stated that they are no longer selling PAO's.

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ExxonMobil has had supply problems with PAOs. The demand for PAOs in transmission fluids, motor oils, and other uses has grown exponentially. The supply has been tight, due in part to natural disasters, due in part to difficulties with new PAO production facilities coming on line, and due in part to shortages in feed stocks.

ExxonMobil first raised prices on PAOs to tamp down demand, and now has basically ceased taking on new customers for PAO stocks.

That opens the door to companies like Hatco, but at a price somewhat higher than was common a year or more ago.




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[bruce381]

Hit nail on head.

 

[ewetho]

So once again the net result of this insight is they lowered product quality not price and rely on the name and history to sell the product based on the assumption of one product and getting yet another. OK supply is a problem, then let everyone know sell the true Mobil 1 and then maybe Mobil2 or EXXON brand as the new alternative. or something.

They made their name on reputation touting GPIII as not a synthetic and not as good. So who care what their issue is not my problem. They sold out.

When you sell out your reputation it is very hard to rebuild.

Either way it comes down to misleading and not lying (maybe not some lawyer legal definition but in the they way your kid does not tell you all the truth to get his way, so very childish LYING).

 

[G-MAN]

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Remember, Group III is "mineral" in much the same way PAO is "mineral". They both begin with crude and undergo fundamental molecular changes.

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That is not true at all. PAO does not "begin with crude." It starts off with ethylene gas molecules.

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There are six commercial processes which oligomerize ethylene to linear alpha olefins.

One of them, that of Sasol Ltd., a South African oil company,employs Fischer-Tropsch synthesis to make PAO directly from crude.

The other commercial processes all rely ultimately on crude as the starting feed stock, although coal, natural gas, and other feed stocks could be used.

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[Bryanccfshr]

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Remember, Group III is "mineral" in much the same way PAO is "mineral". They both begin with crude and undergo fundamental molecular changes.

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That is not true at all. PAO does not "begin with crude." It starts off with ethylene gas molecules.

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There are six commercial processes which oligomerize ethylene to linear alpha olefins.

One of them, that of Sasol Ltd., a South African oil company,employs Fischer-Tropsch synthesis to make PAO directly from crude.

The other commercial processes all rely ultimately on crude as the starting feed stock, although coal, natural gas, and other feed stocks could be used.




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Thank you, The "PAO does not come from crude" myth has been a pet peeve of mine. I believe that ethelyne used to be flared in the refining process. Today, refineries only flare as a safety relief.

 

[Mickey_M]

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.... They made their name on reputation touting GPIII as not a synthetic and not as good. ....

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You may be thinking of Ams(z)oil, which first touted diester, then touted PAO, and now sells a Group III.

Mobil, and ExxonMobil, have never touted PAO over Group III. As a manufacturer of Group III, PAO, and Group V lubricants (including polyolesters, alkalyated napthalenes, and some you may have never heard of), ExxonMobil touts results, not chemical profiles or spec sheets.



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[Dave Hess]

Is the old GF3 SL Mobil 1 also a Group 3 oil?

 

[ekpolk]

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Mobil, and ExxonMobil, have never touted PAO over Group III.

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What?!?

OK, OK, please stop trying so hard -- I think we'll all agree to just go ahead and give you the "Golden Shovel" award right now!

No, Mobil didn't "tout" PAO over G-III, they just dragged Castrol through a long arbitration over whether or not G-III could be called "synthetic" all the while promoting the sanctity of their image as the maker of "real" synthetics. Which, of course, are PAO (or G-V), not G-III. . .

 

[G-MAN]

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Remember, Group III is "mineral" in much the same way PAO is "mineral". They both begin with crude and undergo fundamental molecular changes.

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That is not true at all. PAO does not "begin with crude." It starts off with ethylene gas molecules.

---

There are six commercial processes which oligomerize ethylene to linear alpha olefins.

One of them, that of Sasol Ltd., a South African oil company,employs Fischer-Tropsch synthesis to make PAO directly from crude.

The other commercial processes all rely ultimately on crude as the starting feed stock, although coal, natural gas, and other feed stocks could be used.




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Thank you, The "PAO does not come from crude" myth has been a pet peeve of mine. I believe that ethelyne used to be flared in the refining process. Today, refineries only flare as a safety relief.

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The fact that the feedstock used to formulate PAO is a natural hydrocarbon derived from processing crude does not mean you "start with crude" in the same sense you do when you make Group III. Good grief...

 

[Mickey_M]

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The fact that the feedstock used to formulate PAO is a natural hydrocarbon derived from processing crude does not mean you "start with crude" ...

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It does mean you start with crude.




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[Mickey_M]

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No, Mobil didn't "tout" PAO over G-III, they just dragged Castrol through a long arbitration over whether or not G-III could be called "synthetic" all the while promoting the sanctity of their image as the maker of "real" synthetics.

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The use of terms like "dragged" and "sanctity" indicates you have an axe to grind and little or no actual knowledge of what took place.

Unlike Chevron, which actually sued Texaco over their advertising on their gasoline additives, Mobil asked for a clarification from a division of the Better Business Bureau as to whether or not Group III could be termed "synthetic".

Castrol's position was upheld and Mobil's was not.

That was the end of it.

In Europe Group III is not advertised as "synthetic".

In a number of applications they are pretty much indistinguishable as to performance.

In common analyses the PAO will show up as a "spike" with a high percentage of nearly identical molecules, while the Group III shows a characteristic bell curve, narrower than the Group I and II mineral oils but wider than a PAO.

I am reasonably sure that most of the overheated proponents of PAO over Group III can't provide a single example of the superiority of one over the other.


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[ekpolk]

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The fact that the feedstock used to formulate PAO is a natural hydrocarbon derived from processing crude does not mean you "start with crude" ...

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It does mean you start with crude.
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You're twisting his words. He said "...in the same sense you do when you make G-III".