UOA - Triumph Speed 1200 RR - Rotella T6 15w-40

Bonz said:
Appreciate it, Overfill.

Z and P is low now days based on analysis of T6 15w40 for what I would want in a motorcycle engine if I was doing track days and running high rpm consistently and deliberately. For spending as much money on a new bike as a person will, an oil that holds viscosity for 5000 miles seems not overpaying when changing oil that costs half as much twice as often and disposing of 2x the oil and filters. M1 should hold viscosity better than 15w40 T6 doing track days, IMO, with a more appropriate (to me) additive package for any use. Sure, not doing 5000 mile OCI's when running track days, however it's a good time to try some, once, and make a decision based on the results as the oil is being changed frequently. Won't take long to see if it can do 2X the track days.
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If you want something top shelf, get in contact with High Performance Lubricants. They have multiple lines of motorcycle oils bred from their experience making oil for Pro Stock Motorcycles. They're also willing to make custom blends for specific situations. It costs more, sure, but you're getting more for your dollar and only need to change it once a year.
 
Bonz said:
Z and P is low now days based on analysis of T6 15w40 for what I would want in a motorcycle engine if I was doing track days and running high rpm consistently and deliberately. For spending as much money on a new bike as a person will, an oil that holds viscosity for 5000 miles seems not overpaying when changing oil that costs half as much twice as often and disposing of 2x the oil and filters. M1 should hold viscosity better than 15w40 T6 doing track days, IMO, with a more appropriate (to me) additive package for any use. Sure, not doing 5000 mile OCI's when running track days, however it's a good time to try some, once, and make a decision based on the results as the oil is being changed frequently. Won't take long to see if it can do 2X the track days.
Click to expand...
ZDDP content is less important on short OCIs. Even 800 ppm phosphorus is more than enough for a flat tappet engine when the oil is fresh. The issue is that it degrades, and once enough of it degrades, wear and friction will start to increase. I wouldn't be concerned about ZDDP at all if the oil's being changed every couple of track days.
 
twX said:
ZDDP content is less important on short OCIs. Even 800 ppm phosphorus is more than enough for a flat tappet engine when the oil is fresh. The issue is that it degrades, and once enough of it degrades, wear and friction will start to increase. I wouldn't be concerned about ZDDP at all if the oil's being changed every couple of track days.
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ZDDP is sacrificial but not in that sense. The higher the ZDDP concentration, the thicker the tribofilm it forms. The more reactive the type of ZDDP, the faster and thicker the tribofilm formation. This is necessary for such as a flat tappet camshaft. Most OEM cams are mild enough that 800 ppm is sufficient, but any valvetrain upgrades at all will want more than 800 ppm. For the motorcycle, higher concentrations of ZDDP are beneficial for mitigating ring/liner wear and valvetrain wear. Friction modifiers are just as important since it's a wet clutch.
 
I'd be interested in the source that ZDDP doesn't matter for short intervals. My understanding is the lower the concentration the less there is to coat and react with metal surfaces. Regardless of the amount of time it's in the engine. If, during that short oil change interval a situation occurs that ZDDP has to become sacrificial, don't know if a lower concentration is in the best interest of the engine. Again, I'd like to see a source that has shown that and be more informed.
 
I agree, I would need a source as well. Most every flat tappet cam failure attributed to using the wrong oil (with insufficient ZDDP) went flat within 10 minutes.
 
pax said:
I've used rotella because it comes highly recommended. I haven't heard anything about foaming issues and shearing out of grade seams to be almost universal for most motorcycle oils. I'm happy to hear suggestions though. What you recommend for a mosty track bike that sees very frequent oil changes?
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My HPL at 7200 miles on an HD 114ci engine hadn’t sheared down at all. I beat the crap out of this thing and frequently find myself maxed out at 120 on the interstate for MILES.
 
Panda87 said:
My HPL at 7200 miles on an HD 114ci engine hadn’t sheared down at all. I beat the crap out of this thing and frequently find myself maxed out at 120 on the interstate for MILES.
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How much does HPL's motorcycle oil cost per quart?
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
How much does HPL's motorcycle oil cost per quart?
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I bought a case of the V-Twin 20w-50 for retail of a little over $136 if my math is correct. I used the BITOG code to get it for less. Shipping to Alabama was a hair over $25. I tested this oil at 7200 to see if I could double the HD recommended 5k OCI and HPL could do it with zero worries. I have a post about it here with a UOA in the powersports section.
 
Panda87 said:
I bought a case of the V-Twin 20w-50 for retail of a little over $136 if my math is correct. I used the BITOG code to get it for less. Shipping to Alabama was a hair over $25. I tested this oil at 7200 to see if I could double the HD recommended 5k OCI and HPL could do it with zero worries. I have a post about it here with a UOA in the powersports section.
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Any way you could link me to their online store? All I can find is where to buy the other "HPL" line (with the gray and red labeling).
 
Also, you can contact them directly. 815-932-3288

They make several other oils that aren't listed on the advlubrication site, including some motorcycle oils. If they don't have on hand what you need, they can blend something specifically for you. They've done this for members here before, including this one.

1671719864267 (1).webp
 
Panda87 said:
I bought a case of the V-Twin 20w-50 for retail of a little over $136 if my math is correct. I used the BITOG code to get it for less. Shipping to Alabama was a hair over $25. I tested this oil at 7200 to see if I could double the HD recommended 5k OCI and HPL could do it with zero worries. I have a post about it here with a UOA in the powersports section.
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How many bottles in a case?
 
RDY4WAR said:
Also, you can contact them directly. 815-932-3288

They make several other oils that aren't listed on the advlubrication site, including some motorcycle oils. If they don't have on hand what you need, they can blend something specifically for you. They've done this for members here before, including this one.

View attachment 234184
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That bottle labeling is absolutely awesome! 🤣
 
EvoMan said:
Is this what you got?

V-Twin Motorcycle Oil Change Kit​

The V-Twin Motorcycle Oil Change Kit contains: 8 Quarts 20W-50 engine oil, 3 quarts primary fluid, and 1 quart of 75W-140 transmission fluid.

https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...nts/products/v-twin-motorcycle-oil-change-kit
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Sure is! If you end up wanting a case of just the oil, you can contact them by phone or email. Mary Jane has been super helpful when I needed something. I have a 23 Road Glide Limited which has the factory primary breather tube which lets in dirt, so I change the primary every 5k (I wouldn’t run any primary breather equipped Harley more than 5k due to dirt ingestion), but the oil easily did 10k. Probably could have gone to 12-15k, but keeping it every 10k makes it easier for me to remember service intervals.

The primary oil makes finding neutral nice and easy. I watch so many of my buddies struggle with it while I can do it first shot 90% of the time. The transmission oil has been performing well also.
 
EvoMan said:
IMHO that’s a better deal than the Harley SYN 3 three hole change kit. Theirs is $194.95 and has:

• 5 quarts Genuine SYN3® motorcycle oil
• Black SuperPremium 5-micron oil filter
• 2 quarts Harley-Davidson® Heavy Synthetic Gear Oil
• Service gasket kit
• 4 spark plugs

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/shop/milwaukee-eight-syn3-tune-up-kit-black-filter/p/62600123

I really don’t need the spark plugs or gasket kit.
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I’m simply not a fan of the whole “one lubricant for 3 different sumps” thing. My Goldwing had a shared sump and I really wished it didn’t. Honda transmissions are notchy and a separate sump with a purpose made fluid would have likely helped. The Groms I teach classes on suffer the same issue. Finding neutral is a challenge.

The Harley kit confuses me a bit. Why 5qts of Syn 3 and 2qts of transmission fluid? Just seems an odd hodgepodge of things thrown together, lol.
 
EvoMan said:
In all fairness, Harley doesn’t say it’s a transmission fluid. They list it as a gear oil that can be used in the transmission and the primary.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/shop/heavy-synthetic-gear-oil/p/62600091
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$21.95 though…phew 😳. Retail price for HPL v-twin change kit per qt is a smidge over $14.91 per qt for what is definitely a superior oil. Hell, I didn’t even know a 5th gear whine was a thing because my bike got HPL at the break in service lol. Man HD makes a killing on oils.
 
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