United 767-300 Has Fuselage Buckled by Hard Landing at IAH July 29, 2023

fdcg27 said:
Which is the reason that I gave the pilots the benefit of the doubt in my post.
No first world airline has idiots sitting up front and almost all have embraced a just culture to ensure that the lessons are learned from any mishap lest it be repeated.
The flight crew in this case were well experienced and the 767 is not exactly a mystery to operated consistently.
The cause will be identified and the lessons learned will be used to prevent any future similar event.
I still think that the crew did nothing wrong, but my flight experience doesn't extend beyond the C172, which anyone with a little sense and dual time can safely operate.
Click to expand...
What we know as a “just safety culture” is unfortunately not present everywhere. By just we mean that mistakes will be fixed, errors analyzed, pilots retrained without punishment or retribution. A culture where you are free to tell the truth for the long-term betterment of both the company and the profession.

It’s hard to know what happened here.

But, I do know exactly what happened in Newark about four years ago and there were some mistakes that were made. Errors in judgement. Errors in procedure. Errors in reaction to a bounced landing that ended up damaging the airplane.

That airplane was written off and scrapped.

The FO is still at United. So is the Captain, but they are no longer serving as a Check Pilot as a result.
 
A&Ps at UAL could do what ever the management decided needed to be done. The UAL base at SFO is outstanding.
 
john_pifer said:
Geez, now this is a hard landing!

What happened, @Astro14 ? Did they slam the nose down?

Lots of speculation as to who was flying, with rumors that it was a new-hire FO on an IOE (initial operating experience) flight.

A lot of people are also guessing about whether United will elect to repair this, as it's 32 years old.

United 767 Sustains Serious Damage From Rough LandingOne Mile at a Timehttps://onemileatatime.com › news › united-767-dama...
Click to expand...
I'm guessing a nose landing due to windy conditions. Typically landing on the mains won't cause buckling unless there was a serious defect in the fuselage somewhere
 
wpod said:
A&Ps at UAL could do what ever the management decided needed to be done. The UAL base at SFO is outstanding.
Click to expand...
I suspect they will call out the Boeing structural engineers, determine what components were damaged, determine the costs of said structural members, hand a BOM to the airline with costs (parts and labor), and then let the airline determine if they want to "upgrade" those structural members.

There are internal Boeing documents/procedures for assessing and repairing damages for all types of accidents and for all aircraft types in the fleet.

We once had a hard "nose-down" landing on a 737-500 which resulted in various damage points. The estimated bill was over 10% of the cost of a new airframe.
 
MolaKule said:
I suspect they will call out the Boeing structural engineers, determine what components were damaged, determine the costs of said structural members, hand a BOM to the airline with costs (parts and labor), and then let the airline determine if they want to "upgrade" those structural members.

There are internal Boeing documents/procedures for assessing and repairing damages for all types of accidents and for all aircraft types in the fleet.

We once had a hard "nose-down" landing on a 737-500 which resulted in various damage points. The estimated bill was over 10% of the cost of a new airframe.
Click to expand...
When QANTAS crashed their 747-400 in Bangkok in 1999, during a rainy landing, which departed the runway, went another couple hundred yards, and slammed into a ditch, there was damage to the fuselage, the nose gear was sheared off, both inboard engines were damaged and the wing was damaged.

But QANTAS had never had a hull loss. So, they paid nearly as much as a new airplane to have that one fixed, so their record would remain unblemished.
 
Last edited:
I couldn't imagine the training and skill required to fly an airliner by just be being able to take coffee breaks in the 747 freighters cockpits when I was gainfully employed I would ponder the skill needed.. Complex would say they were complex and airliner are huge even the smaller models.
 
MolaKule said:
I suspect they will call out the Boeing structural engineers, determine what components were damaged, determine the costs of said structural members, hand a BOM to the airline with costs (parts and labor), and then let the airline determine if they want to "upgrade" those structural members.

There are internal Boeing documents/procedures for assessing and repairing damages for all types of accidents and for all aircraft types in the fleet.

We once had a hard "nose-down" landing on a 737-500 which resulted in various damage points. The estimated bill was over 10% of the cost of a new airframe.
Click to expand...
I have been in the maintenance base and it is above my ability to comprehend what goes on there. Seeing an airliner up on blocks and being apart and worked on is stunning. The A&Ps do it daily. Humbly I will say my level of expertise about airplanes is , I know an airplane when I see one.
 
Are these airplanes insured like your car? "Hey Jake at State Farm I just had a little fender bender am I covered?"
 
1foxracing said:
Are these airplanes insured like your car? "Hey Jake at State Farm I just had a little fender bender am I covered?"
Click to expand...
No. Big companies have insurance, but it’s nothing like your car, and for most things, they self insure.

United has over 900 airplanes at the moment. For the most part, they’re financed, or used as assets on balance sheets, but the insurance is different. This is one of 900+.

Not a big loss, from a financial perspective. But, when every flight is full, losing an international widebody airplane will have operational impacts. We don’t have a lot of “spares”. Utilization is very high.
 
Last edited:
1foxracing said:
Are these airplanes insured like your car? "Hey Jake at State Farm I just had a little fender bender am I covered?"
Click to expand...
Sort of. The largest leasing agent in the world is gcas or GE Commercial aviation services. Yes there is definitely insurance. After 9/11 terrorism insurance was all but mandatory i.e every airline more or less had to add it.
 
Astro14 said:
What we know as a “just safety culture” is unfortunately not present everywhere. By just we mean that mistakes will be fixed, errors analyzed, pilots retrained without punishment or retribution. A culture where you are free to tell the truth for the long-term betterment of both the company and the profession.

It’s hard to know what happened here.

But, I do know exactly what happened in Newark about four years ago and there were some mistakes that were made. Errors in judgement. Errors in procedure. Errors in reaction to a bounced landing that ended up damaging the airplane.

That airplane was written off and scrapped.

The FO is still at United. So is the Captain, but they are no longer serving as a Check Pilot as a result.
Click to expand...

john_pifer said:
I read that winds were calm. Don’t know for sure.
Click to expand...
Calm winds according to Aviation Herald

3 - 5 knots.


Metars:
KIAH 291753Z 17005KT 10SM SCT050 SCT250 34/21 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP193 T03390211 10339 20239 58011=
KIAH 291653Z 00000KT 10SM SCT045 SCT250 33/22 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP198 T03280222=
KIAH 291553Z 15003KT 10SM SCT035 BKN250 31/22 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP203 T03110217=
KIAH 291453Z 22005KT 10SM SCT025 BKN250 30/23 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP204 T03000233 51012 $=
KIAH 291353Z 00000KT 10SM SCT020 SCT250 29/24 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP201 T02940244 $=
KIAH 291253Z 00000KT 10SM FEW020 SCT250 27/24 A3012 RMK AO2 SLP196 T02720244 $=
KIAH 291153Z 00000KT 10SM FEW020 SCT250 24/23 A3010 RMK AO2 SLP192 T02390233 10272 20239 53012 $=
KIAH 291053Z 00000KT 10SM FEW023 SCT250 24/23 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP186 T02440233 $=
 
atikovi said:
Why have ANY pilots onboard at all? Why can't one pilot on the ground be in charge of 5 planes in the air. If autonomous cars are on the road, why not planes in the sky? Huge money saver for the airlines.
Click to expand...
I would prefer a pilot driving the plane,,, a military pilot if possible.
 
Last edited:
wpod said:
I would prefer a pilot driving the plane,,, a military pilot if possible.
Click to expand...
After flying for lots of companies, 40 years and 25,000 hours , it doesn’t matter where a person got their “wings”.

What I know for a fact is, there are strong, average and a few weak pilots from all backgrounds.

It all comes down to the pilot.
 
So how do the predator drones fly and land? Are they not completely remote? Is it a size this thing or that fact the are lives on board that limits them from being flown remotely?
 
atikovi said:
Umm....you FLY a plane, not drive it.
Click to expand...
Which is why a pilot can’t be flying five planes at once. Would you let a heart surgeon do five surgeries simultaneously? What if one patient had a sudden rupture…would you like to be one of the four that the surgeon ignores while focusing on that crisis? Because one, or more, of those four being ignored may not make it…
 
Astro14 said:
Which is why a pilot can’t be flying five planes at once. Would you let a heart surgeon do five surgeries simultaneously? What if one patient had a sudden rupture…would you like to be one of the four that the surgeon ignores while focusing on that crisis? Because one, or more, of those four being ignored may not make it…
Click to expand...


It’s not commonly known but a heart surgeon will schedule multiple surgeries for a day. His assistant does all the opening and getting things ready. The heart surgeon comes in and does the important part then leaves to go to the next patient. The assistant closes up.

As for emergencies, they do happen. I’ve seen several emergency open heart surgeries performed right in the patients room usually because a graft pops loose. They open them up right there, stabilize things and then head to surgery to finish it up.

In major hospitals one cardio thoracic operating room is left open for emergencies. You might have three heart surgeries going and suddenly a gunshot wound to the heart comes in. A lot of juggling behind the scenes happens.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom