Everybody stole this design. Of course Mr Benz probably didn't invent the wheels, seat, engine, etc. So there's that. All good.
Understanding Tesla's Current Stock Valuation
- Thread starter DwightFrye
- Start date
You're so dismissive you'd downplay the cure for cancer. Spare me.
My point was CT was clean sheet with lots of new tech. It was likely the biggest attempt to jump forward the company has ever taken.
It didn’t sell but those ideas may propagate elsewhere in the future.
That’s the definition of R&D. You try to get some customer research but since there are no real customers you take your best shot and hope it sells.
That’s why big manufacturing companies don’t do this sort of thing. They take baby steps and then over pay for startups with new ideas when they need to move forward.
AC Propulsion was in a serious financial situation at the time. They didn't make many cars unfortunately. I don't think they got past the first three prototypes. Eberhard bought a bunch of stock trying to prop the company up because he wanted them to build him a personal car. At first he wasn't trying to develop a car. He just wanted an EV sports car. They never finished his car, at least that's what Eberhard claims. It definitely got a lot of great minds together.
R&D serves the purpose of creating new knowledge and developing new applications of existing knowledge. In business, it's a crucial process for innovation, leading to new products, services, and processes. R&D helps companies stay competitive by improving existing offerings and adapting to changing market demands.
I am not sure there are no real customers for trucks... In fact, Musk forecasted the CT would be selling 250K Cybertruks by 2025. Tesla sold about 5,000 in Q2. I have to believe it would have had a far better chance for success if Tesla had better identified their terget market. It certainly ain't 250K annual sales.
I suggest the new tech was in the original Roadster. Its design paved the way for the EVs we have today, including the CT. But you are right about the CT new tech, if you consider drive by wire and more. But the body hardly lends itself to pickup functionality. Who needs this thing?
The TZero wasn’t user friendly. It did have single pedal driving, onboard charging, and regen. The Roadster really came together nicely and gave me hope. The Model S is the car that made me believe. The CT scared me enough to sell my stock. I hope drive by wire and 48v make it into other cars, but it’s the $30,000 Model Y I personally want. Then if….we can get reasonable insurance rates, parts, repairability…
Necessity is the father of all inventions. This is 100% true.
They had to get the roadster done so they could get funding. So they did what they had to do. I still contend it wasn't pushing the envelope as far as the CT, but I agree with @JeffKeryk it was the spark that lit the fire. So it did what it was supposed to.
The CT on the other hand they were mag 7 darlings with all the money in the world. So it went from a promised $40K pickup truck to a space age 4 wheel steer drive by wire marvel of modern engineering. That was a year late and 2.5X the promised price. So mission creep killed it - which if you have ever been part of a big dollar R&D project you can completely understand. I have, and I do.
Its still pretty cool in my book.
We bought the '18 Model Y Mid Range in Dec 2018, mostly for my wife. I came to really appreciate the car, learn EV use vs ICE (fueling), etc. I fell in love with the car. When the Highland came out, I pulled the trigger as soon as the new Performance was released. I have never been as satisfied with a vehicle.
The cheaper cars are on the way. I will say I would miss things like the current high fidelity audio system.
That's what really blows about the whole situation. The tech in the Cybertruck is great, but there's no part of the Cybertruck that I find appealing. It's large, ungainly, less efficient, and just a horrible attention getter. The S is really good for what it is, but the biggest issue I have with the S is unnecessary fail points like the door handles and much higher costs than the 3 and Y for what is essentially all the same materials and a slightly bigger battery. Sure that means that even more performance is possible, but now that it's a dated design that has just seen another price increase and even it didn't get the 48v and steer by wire. I really think they got it right with the 3 and the Y and without these other previous models existing, we'd never get to the point where the 3 and Y are where they are today.
Musk's stated plan was to start with the expensive cars to gain EV expertise. The plan goal was the everyman's EV. Just my opinion, but I think Musk got too full of himself and built the Cybertruck (and ventured into a verboten place). Sure the CT is a marvel in many ways but is a failure in others and I believe a deviation from the stated plan. But what do I know?
Eberhard, Tarpenning (and Musk) lit the fire with the Roadster, with a lot of help from Lotus and others, captivated the auto industry with the Model S and continued on their trajectory. Until recently, of course. My money is still on this Silicon Valley start up.
Founded in 2003 by American entrepreneurs Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, the company is named after Serbian-American inventor Nikola Tesla. It is now the most valuable car company in the world, by a huge margin. It's not even close; that's the numbers.
This car spanked a lotta world class cars, even back then. And boy did it generate interest. Of course, we all knew snotty nosed Tesla would be belly up any day now... Right?
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I drive by a Tesla place yesterday. There was a crowd of Grandma's and young purple haired weirdo types out front waving signs about how evil Tesla is. Almost made me want to go in and buy one.
I understand the anger; Musk slapped his customer base in the face. But that's him, not the company, not the cars and certainly not the 120K+ employees.
Just my 2 cents. Hey - go drive the new Y and tell me what you think. Don't drive the M3P is you are at all into performance cars...
It's definitely the best way to build a new brand. Start with special models that have more possible markup it helps to build in some possible profitability. It explains the gimmicks in the X very well. The only reason why the 3 and Y have been so successful is that they're at a point where they can produce and sell enough cars for a lower margin vehicle to be viable. That really could have went the wrong way if they did the smaller cars too soon, though they weren't exactly cheap when the Y first debuted. I can't directly criticize the product direction of the company aside from the Cybertruck seeming to not fit in anywhere in the line. It's obviously working if I felt the need to buy three of them.
Iirc, they couldn’t get enough batteries for a higher volume cheaper car. At one point they were using everything Panasonic could make at GF1 as well as buying CATL, LG, and then started making their own 4680 (what’s going on with that and what cars are they going into?).
Now Panasonic has expansion on hold, and has announced deals with other automakers. The Kansas plant was going to make their own version of the 4680 but recently announced they started making 2170s there like GF1.
The Semi factory, next door to GF1is going to use 2170 cells iirc.
And now, down the street, Tesla has started making prismatic cells that I believe are for megapacks..
Is the 4680 dead?
Now Panasonic has expansion on hold, and has announced deals with other automakers. The Kansas plant was going to make their own version of the 4680 but recently announced they started making 2170s there like GF1.
The Semi factory, next door to GF1is going to use 2170 cells iirc.
And now, down the street, Tesla has started making prismatic cells that I believe are for megapacks..
Is the 4680 dead?
Ford did sell 1165 more lightings than Cybertrucks in the first quarter and I think a few more than that in Q2. What I don't get is how most companies look at their product line and cancel products or services that don't make money, yet Tesla is continuing to crank out Cybertrucks. What for? It's estimated that between 7,500 and 10,000 Cybertrucks are sitting at various hold lots. That's over a four month supply sitting. Now that the cats out of the bag and the resale/trade-in value has come out a lot of people have skipped buying one altogether.
You can lease a cybertruck or a Lightning for about $700 a month now, so I read. I wonder what percentage of people are doing that.
If you just had to have one, I would think that would be the way to go currently?
Based on some of the lease rates I've heard that doesn't sound terrible. I wouldn't want to deal with the depreciation hit on any vehicle that expensive, let alone one that drops like these two do.
Oh yeah, forgot about the Cybertruck. I believe the Model Y with the 4680 was phased out. Do you know for sure?
With the tax credits expiring the Slate may be dead in the water. They really needed the $7,500 difference or it's not going to be any cheaper than a base maverick.
