Understanding Tesla's Current Stock Valuation

[JeffKeryk]

In fairness the king of trucks - Ford, hasn't sold that many lightnings and at one point they were literally giving them away with rebates and such.

The Cybertruck was many things but it was never intended to be a working man's truck. No working man would buy a truck without flat bed rails. If you ever worked out a truck for a living - farmer, contractor, etc - you would understand why.

It was an interesting experiment. I could see a EV truck in the class of the Maverick / santa cruz being popular?

What was the target market? I just don't get it.

A better looking Rivian style would have made more sense, but Musk got too full of himself, IMO. And then got worse...
Obviously he was a different person when he invested in the fledging Tesla in the early 2000's.

 

[SC Maintenance]

What was the target market? I just don't get it.

A better looking Rivian style would have made more sense, but Musk got too full of himself, IMO. And then got worse...
Obviously he was a different person when he invested in Tesla in the early 2000's.

I see it a little differently. It was along the lines of the original Tesla roadster. It was supposed to grab public attention to say "were in this market". I think it did that. I mean were talking about it right?

I think they underestimated the cost and time it would take to get there (much like the Roadster). That much is a recurring theme.

 

[Torrid]

What was the target market? I just don't get it.

A better looking Rivian style would have made more sense, but Musk got too full of himself, IMO. And then got worse...
Obviously he was a different person when he invested in the fledging Tesla in the early 2000's.

I was watching a video with Martin Eberhard who founded Tesla earlier and he mentioned how he sees the changes Elon has went through. It doesn't seem he's a fan of the Cybertruck antics.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I see it a little differently. It was along the lines of the original Tesla roadster. It was supposed to grab public attention to say "were in this market". I think it did that. I mean were talking about it right?

I think they underestimated the cost and time it would take to get there (much like the Roadster). That much is a recurring theme.

The original Tesla Roadster was Eberhard and Tarpenning. It changed the world. Instead of a boring, slow electric economy car, build the opposite: an exciting vehicle, fast with sufficient range, not to mention expensive. The Roadster was just that; it was the taste of Silicon Valley where upscale German and Italian sports cars roamed. The little car company in Palo Alto was all over the news around here.
Every EV today follows the basic battery/motor design to a large extent.

The CT, IMO, was a case of what not to do.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I was watching a video with Martin Eberhard who founded Tesla earlier and he mentioned how he sees the changes Elon has went through. It doesn't seem he's a fan of the Cybertruck antics.

Ya think? Eberhard sued Tesla to get what he thought was his; I don't know the whole story. But he makes no bones how Musk took a 2002 start up car company to the most valuable, by far, car company in the world. And Musk became the richest man along the way.

I think there is a stat; every new American car company in the last 100 years failed until Tesla. Something like that....
Eberhard has the #2 Founder Series Roadster. He also has a later production Roadster that Musk's wife got in their divorce.

 

[Torrid]

Ya think? Eberhard sued Tesla to get what he thought was his; I don't know the whole story. But he makes no bones how Musk took a 2002 start up car company to the most valuable, by far, car company in the world. And Musk became the richest man along the way.

I think there is a stat; every new American car company in the last 100 years failed until Tesla. Something like that....
Eberhard has the #2 Founder Series Roadster. He also has a later production Roadster that Musk's wife got in their divorce.

Yeah, he was telling those stories in the interview I saw. They did the interview right in his driveway next to the #2 car. He definitely doesn't beat around the bush about the success the brand has seen with Tesla. He's definitely not too impressed with FSD or the idea of AI in cars though.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The original Tesla Roadster was Eberhard and Tarpenning. It changed the world. Instead of a boring, slow electric economy car, build the opposite: an exciting vehicle, fast with sufficient range, not to mention expensive. The Roadster was just that; it was the taste of Silicon Valley where upscale German and Italian sports cars roamed. The little car company in Palo Alto was all over the news around here.
Every EV today follows the basic battery/motor design to a large extent.

The CT, IMO, was a case of what not to do.

Yes and they stole the design from Lotus and put a motor / battery in it. So what.

I think that was the attempt to build the CT. If not, they would have just stole the design of an F150 and put a battery / motor in it like they did with the Roadster. But Ford did that themselves and it has not been a success either, for whatever set of reasons.

But yes, sometimes you have to figure out what not to do the hard way. Like New Coke.

I guess time will tell. How many SpaceX rockets blew up on the launch pad, but look at them now.

 

[Torrid]

Yes and they stole the design from Lotus and put a motor / battery in it. So what.

I think that was the attempt to build the CT. If not, they would have just stole the design of an F150 and put a battery / motor in it like they did with the Roadster. But Ford did that themselves and it has not been a success either, for whatever set of reasons.

But yes, sometimes you have to figure out what not to do the hard way. Like New Coke.

I guess time will tell. How many SpaceX rockets blew up on the launch pad, but look at them now.

Stole the design? It was a business agreement with Lotus. it literally was a modified Lotus chassis. They wanted to work with Porsche, but the cost was way too high for Tesla as a startup.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Stole the design? It was a business agreement with Lotus. it literally was a modified Lotus chassis. They wanted to work with Porsche, but the cost was way too high for Tesla as a startup.

It wasn't clean sheet. They didn't design it. It was figurative - I was commenting on a post that insinuated the Roadster was the creation of Martin Eberhard. It wasn't - he stuffed a motor in an Esprit. It would be like me stuffing a motor in my Fronty and saying I made the first mid-size EV truck.

As an aside, long before Tesla was a thing people were stuffing motors in old S10 pickups and putting hundreds of pounds of lead acid batteries in the bed to power them - to get like 20 miles of range. The S10 was perfect because it had the bed available for the battery.

 

[Torrid]

It wasn't clean sheet. They didn't design it. It was figurative - I was commenting on a post that insinuated the Roadster was the creation of Martin Eberhard. It wasn't - he stuffed a motor in an Esprit. It would be like me stuffing a motor in my Fronty and saying I made the first mid-size EV truck.

As an aside, long before Tesla was a thing people were stuffing motors in old S10 pickups and putting hundreds of pounds of lead acid batteries in the bed to power them - to get like 20 miles of range. The S10 was perfect because it had the bed available for the battery.

It was an Elise chassis, not an Esprit. It was the deal to begin with. They didn't have the resources to design a clean sheet car. They didn't claim anything otherwise. The idea was to make a sports car because it didn't fit the convention of what people thought EVs were. No one though of EVs as fast back then.

 

[SC Maintenance]

It was an Elise chassis, not an Esprit. It was the deal to begin with. They didn't have the resources to design a clean sheet car. They didn't claim anything otherwise. The idea was to make a sports car because it didn't fit the convention of what people thought EVs were. No one though of EVs as fast back then.

Yes, exactly. And no one thinks of EV's as serious pickup trucks either - still. I think that was what the CT was attempting to be - with crazy things like 4 wheel steering and special glass and crazy 0-60 times. Too far ahead of its time - like Tucker? Maybe?

 

[Torrid]

Yes, exactly. And no one thinks of EV's as serious pickup trucks either - still. I think that was what the CT was attempting to be - with crazy things like 4 wheel steering and special glass and crazy 0-60 times. Too far ahead of its time - like Tucker? Maybe?

Why do you even bother arguing about EVs if you're just already written them off? What's the point?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Why do you even bother arguing about EVs if you're just already written them off? What's the point?

You replied to me? Feel free not to.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes and they stole the design from Lotus and put a motor / battery in it. So what.

I think that was the attempt to build the CT. If not, they would have just stole the design of an F150 and put a battery / motor in it like they did with the Roadster. But Ford did that themselves and it has not been a success either, for whatever set of reasons.

But yes, sometimes you have to figure out what not to do the hard way. Like New Coke.

I guess time will tell. How many SpaceX rockets blew up on the launch pad, but look at them now.

That's just not true. Nobody stole anything. Perhaps go read the development of the original Roadster.
The Roadster contains less than 10% Lotus parts, or something like that. Yes the cars look similar, and Lotus played a significant role in the Roadster development.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This is a big misconception. Perhaps go read the development of the original Roadster.

I have and I stand by my statement. Its not a lot different then guys stuffing small block chevy's in a 32 deuce. Yes, everything was modified to make it fit, including the frame, the entire drivetrain, control system, suspension, interior. But in the end its still a 32 deuce with a small block chevy in it.

Yes, people like to make things a big deal, like they lengthened the chassis or used a different suspension spring or whatever, but if you ever built any sort of car - a race specific car, or a retro rod or whatever, this stuff is not that earth shattering. Your modifying not designing.

The technical side of this stuff - like the original roadster or the CT is interesting. The politics not so much.

 

[Torrid]

I have and I stand by my statement. Its not a lot different then guys stuffing small block chevy's in a 32 deuce. Yes, everything was modified to make it fit, including the frame, the entire drivetrain, control system, suspension, interior. But in the end its still a 32 deuce with a small block chevy in it.

Yes, people like to make things a big deal, like they lengthened the chassis or used a different suspension spring or whatever, but if you ever built any sort of car - a race specific car, or a retro rod or whatever, this stuff is not that earth shattering. Your modifying not designing.

The technical side of this stuff - like the original roadster or the CT is interesting. The politics not so much.

It was a business agreement with Lotus. It was Tesla's first product to market. The founders even said they weren't ready to develop a car and they just had an idea for the underlying tech. No one stole anything. Just wow. I'm sure you could have developed a motor and battery setup and shoved into an existing chassis that managed to make EVs what they are today. That's just as simple as throwing a small block in a random hot rod.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Why do you even bother arguing about EVs if you're just already written them off? What's the point?

It was a business agreement with Lotus. It was Tesla's first product to market. The founders even said they weren't ready to develop a car and they just had an idea for the underlying tech. No one stole anything. Just wow. I'm sure you could have developed a motor and battery setup and shoved into an existing chassis that managed to make EVs what they are today. That's just as simple as throwing a small block in a random hot rod.

So you are replying to me, or your not. I am so confused

Anyway, did Tesla invent Lithium Ion batteries, or motors or drives or drive controllers, or carbon fiber. Nope on all accounts.

Not saying they weren't smart guys - but what they did was take a lot of existing tech and put it in a car. So there like the first guy to stuff a small block chevy in a Deuce coop.

I believe there were far more patents issued and far more firsts on the CT than the roadster.

 

[Torrid]

So you are replying to me, or your not. I am so confused

Anyway, did Tesla invent Lithium Ion batteries, or motors or drives or drive controllers, or carbon fiber. Nope on all accounts.

Not saying they weren't smart guys - but what they did was take a lot of existing tech and put it in a car. So there like the first guy to stuff a small block chevy in a Deuce coop.

I believe there were far more patents issued and far more firsts on the CT than the roadster.

I'm still trying to figure out what your mental malfunction is. This combination of technologies and parts didn't come together on their own and if it was so easy, you should be a billionaire right now. Instead here you are acting like a complete tool on an internet forum.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I'm still trying to figure out what your mental malfunction is. This combination of technologies and parts didn't come together on their own and if it was so easy, you should be a billionaire right now. Instead here you are acting like a complete tool on an internet forum.

So personal attack is all ya got huh?

 

[1000MPH]

They wanted to work with ACPropulsion and mass produce the TZero. Both Martin and Co, and separately, Elon tried at some point. AC said no thanks but we will sell you drive units and tech. Some of the AC guys (Wally Rippel) went to Tesla. Tesla soon changed to the lotus chassis and developed their own tech. Enough changes that AC couldn’t claim copyright. Alan Cocconi at ACPropulsion was the one that was working on using Li-Ion cylindrical cells since he was using them in model airplanes IIRC.