UHP all-season vs grand touring summer tires

[slacktide_bitog]

Vredestein Sportrac 5 (H- or V-rated), a grand touring summer tire
Falken Ziex ZE950 (W-rated), an ultra high performance all-season
(there's also a V-rated version of the Falken called Sumitomo HTR AS P02)

These two particular tires for the size 205/65-15

I heard that all-season tires are no-season tires, but the higher speed rating is definitely nothing to frown at.

 

[CapriRacer]

So what's the difference between a Summer tire and an All Season tire?

Tread Pattern. An All Season tire will have a tread pattern that has more cross grooves and more sipes. Those are there to get better winter traction.

Can a Summer tire also have a different tread compound - a tread compound that would not be suitable for use in cold weather?

Yes, indeed, but not having that doesn't make the tire not a Summer tire.

And, Yes!!, some All Season tires do not have very good snow traction as the only requirement for being called an All Season is a geometric description published by the Rubber Manufacturers Association.

Tires are compromises and while All Season tires may not do EVERYTHING well, they have some level of capability throughout the year.

 

[dailydriver]

^^^So, there is at least a chance that some brands of all season tires use a more winter (or at least dry weather colder than 45*F) capable COMPOUND than that same company's SUMMER only tires (let's say Michelin's Pilot Super Sports vs. their Pilot Sport all seasons)??

 

[GenSan]

I'll chime in on the Falken Ziex ZE950. I replaced my wife's Highlander Hybrid tire's (245/55/19 H) with a set. OEM rubber were Toyo open country A20s with a UTQG rating of 300 A A and the specs on the Ziex 950s are UTQG of 600 A A. The Toyos were more an all season highway tire that only lasted about 35,000 miles. While the Falkens are marketed as an ultra-high performance AS.

I just put 3,000 miles on the Falken's recently on a road trip and we have about 10,000 total miles on them. They are very grippy in dry conditions. I could spin the toyos at a stop with wheel turned traction control off with awd and full throttle but the Falkens don't lose grip in similar tests. Wet conditions with the Falkens is quite good and overall better than the Toyos. I have no winter miles with the Falkens but they are suppose to be adequate for an ultra-high performance all-season. I have a set of Yokohama Ice guards for winter for my wife's Highlander.

I was cross-shopping the Falken Ziex 950s with the Michelin Latitude Tour HP and I'm glad I chose the Falkens. I perused various Porsche forums and they were all raves about Falken tires for their 911s. From my experience with these UHP all-seasons I may never go back to my mainstay of Michelin LTX all season tires. Traction with an UHP AS in dry/wet conditions trumps that of a regular all-season tire and comfort/noise is no worse. The only category an all-season tire would trump an UHP AS would be tread life. Some all-seasons I've seen have 800 A A UTQG ratings. So if you prioritize tread life more than dry/wet traction I would stay away from the UHP AS class of tires. And I'm a firm believer in dedicated winter tires so I would never run just an all-season tire or even an UHP AS when the temps. drop.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
^^^So, there is at least a chance that some brands of all season tires use a more winter (or at least dry weather colder than 45*F) capable COMPOUND than that same company's SUMMER only tires (let's say Michelin's Pilot Super Sports vs. their Pilot Sport all seasons)??

I emailed Michelin about the minimum temps to use my BFG sport comp 2's and they said -7C is the cut off for all their high performance summer tires and the major worry is the tires actually cracking. I would assume that any of their high performance all-season tires wouldn't have any temperature restrictions.
I've run my Comp 2's in around -7C and near 0C in the rain and they still worked better than my old cheap 3 season tires. I'm running some autocross this summer with them so the real test will be to see how they handle some heat cycles and then the colder weather this fall and next spring.
So far I'd have no problems running summer tires year round if I lived in an area where it never went below freezing, maybe at the end of their life these tires will get scary in the cold and wet but so far they are good.

 

[Jetronic]

Are you sure they didn't say +7°C? As that's the generally accepted cutoff to switch to winter rubber here...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Are you sure they didn't say +7°C? As that's the generally accepted cutoff to switch to winter rubber here...

From BFG/Michelin
Quote:
First, I'd like to share that BFGoodrich (UHP) Sport Summer tires use tread compounds that are optimized for maximum dry and damp grip in temperate conditions. As the temperature of the compound nears freezing, the grip level of the tire begins to degrade. Michelin does not recommend using UHP Sport Summer tires when tire temperatures drop below 40°F (5°C) or on snow and ice.

To answer your question about the temperature, at tire temperatures below 20°F (-7°C) Michelin UHP Sport Summer tires may develop surface cracks in the upper sidewall and tread area if flexed. Do not use, roll, or drop MICHELIN UHP Sport Summer tires with temperatures below 20°F (-7°C). If the tires have been cooled to 20°F (-7°C) or less, let them warm up in a heated space to at least 40°F (5°C) before being installed or moving a vehicle on which they are installed. Do not apply heat or blow heated air directly on the tires. Always inspect tires before use. Never use a tire with freeze cracks, breaks, or damage to the sidewall or tread.


I found them fine at 0C in the wet, sure not as grippy as when warm, but they still lost grip quite slowly and didn't break away quickly. That was when they were new, so we'll see what happens after some use.

 

[krzyss]

It looks like -7C is glass transition temperature for Michelin UHP Sport Summer tires.
They loose traction much earlier.
Below this temperature tires may be damaged mechanically by flexing inflexible rubber.

Krzys