UAO Redline ATF

[JohnBrowning]

2001 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab
4.7V8 45RFE Trans
28,000 MIles on the Truck 18,000 on the ATF.
Transmission was not flushed just drained and refilled with Redline ATF.

Aluminum 20
Chromium 0
Iron 17
Copper 18
Lead 8
Tin 0
Moly 1
Nickel o
manganesse 2
silver 0
titanium 0
potassium 5
boron 48
silicon 44
sodium 22
calcium 1285
magnesium 3
phosphorus 429
zinc 361
barium 791

SUS@210 49.1
Flash Point 405

The high silicone was due to adding Mopar anti Foam wich is silcone based. I sent Redline an email asking if theirs already had the antifoam in it but they took to long getting back to me. So I added the old Mopar silicone anti foam to the fluid. I also sespect that when the body shop replaced the radiator and the trany cooler that they used ATF+3 instead of ATF+4 to top off the transmission. At 10,000 miles I changed the two filter's and drained out 7 quarts of trany fluid. I replaced the 7 quarts that i was able to drain out with redline C+ATF. Is it possable that the esters in the Redline are cleaning the case of the transmission like Auto-RX would and that is why the Aluminum is high? This is the first automatic UOA I have looked at. Where could the aluminum be comeing from. I know it can not be wear related or the iron,copper, lead and tin would be up! I wounder if it could be comeing from the new OEM oil cooler it is all aluminum? I am going to drain and refill and se what my next sample looks like!

 

[MolaKule]

I find aluminum is from coolers and the tranny case. My experience is that the tranny case is always "sloughing-off" some aluminum.

All in all, not a bad report.

BTW, the barium is a detergent/dispersant which is sometimes found in diesel oils as well to control particulates. Here , it is used to suspend clutch pack particles.

 

[Gary Allan]

When referring to this "anti-foam" ...do you mean the friction modifier that makes regular Dexron III conform to the 7176 MOPAR spec??

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

What Bror said...

And what is the total capacity? Was that about a 50% change out?

Also, what elements are the clutch materials made of? I think that would be valuable info if they tested for that in a auto tranny UOA

Seems a lot of trannies burn the clutches up and that would let you know. And some oils cause clutches to slip more than others...

Ah who cares, autos bite anyway

 

[JohnBrowning]

Capcity is 14 quarts. So I was able to replace 50% of the OEM fluid.

 

[MolaKule]

What Bror said!

 

[MolaKule]

Friction Modifiers and anti-foamants are two entirely different additives.

[ May 12, 2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well the clutch's are made up of fiberious friction material and they interact with steels. Their was not measureable insolubles and that is what theses would probably show up as. The transmissions has two filters on it. The one on the intake side is like most trany filters. It is simple felt and stainless steel mesh. The return side comeing back from my cooler has a spin in canister filter. It looks just like an unpainted oil filter with a threaded stud attached to the filter. Both filters are internal. I doubt that any friction material that made it past the primary filter would ever make it pack into the pan past the secondary filter. Friction material is usualy a bit bigger then powdered sugar but finer then sand. It lays in the bottom of the pan and is gritty. If you see gray powder in the trans it is either the differential gears(spider gear or ring gear) if FWD or it is the steels. If it is shiny then it is usualy plantery gears.

 

[Bror Jace]

I saw this before ... and it is neat ... but I have nothing to compare it to.

"the barium is a detergent/dispersant which is sometimes found in diesel oils as well to control particulates. Here, it is used to suspend clutch pack particles."

Sort of like a perpetual enema?

--- Bror Jace

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Friction Modifiers and anti-foamants are two entirely different additives.

---

Agreed! But since I've never heard of MOPAR antifoam for any trans (I'm not saying that it doesn't exist ..I've just never heard of it)...and I'm totally aware that the MOPAR automatic REQUIRES a friction modifier to prevent "micro grabs" in the all too fine clutch clearances (OD trannies)..and some other stuff with the lock up converters....etc....etc..

I was suggesting that the term "antifoam" was a mistaken function of the stuff that was added. This was further bolstered by the mention of silicon ...which I'm certain would modify friction ..but I'm unsure of it as a defoamer. Most of the defoamers that I've come in contact with (granted these are industrial applications) are hydrocarbon based. I'm also interested in how silicon breaks down surface tension that allows bubbles (foam) to form (foamation).

BTW- if you didn't add 7176 spec ATF ....you are supposed to add "friction modifier" to the standard DEX III

 

[JohnBrowning]

Gary some time ago Dodges required anti-doam to be added to the ATF. The additive comes in a small clear platic bottle labled Mopar Anti Foam. Depending on how much fluid you are changeing you add the apropriate number of bottles to prevent foam. It is a silicone based anti-foam. It is the same principal as friction modifier for limted slip differentials. You only need the gear lube fricxtion modifier if you had the limited slip so it would be silly to put it in all of the fluid. Manufactures never want to pay anymore then they have to for chemicals. So you will often see a base formula that will work for 90% of their vechiles then a simple additive to bring it up to spec. for other vechiles that have special needs. ATF=2 and I belive ATF+3 required the anti-foam to be added to the fluid the newer ATF+4 already has anti-foam added to the formula. I knew that a little extra anti-foam would not kill the tranny so I aired on the side of caution and put in enough to supply the tranys needs if the fluid was without anti-foam. So this is why I am over range on silicone. I also used a RTV like sealant that also contributed to this. This trany does not use a pan gasket it uses sealant.

 

[Cutehumor]

This is the first Redline transmission oil analysis I have seen. I also have redline D4 in my auto 4sp tranny for the past 8k miles. from this analysis, is this tranny oil used up? I see that it is only 18k miles of use. I guess with no TBN you can't say? I'm on my first interval of redline oil to smooth some rough upshifts. I have added a transmission cooler with some lubegard. Since regular transmission oil can 20-30k miles between changes, are extended intervals advised with sythnetic transmission oil as with sythnetic engine oil?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Cutehumor, No it is not used up. If you double my wear numbers I am still only 1/4 to 1/2 the universal average for this application. The viscosity is good, the flash point is good, their are no insoulubles..... the fluid is not oxiditized

 

[jeremiah2360]

I have an 03 Dodge Dakota with the auto tranny and am using Amsoil ATF. Should I be adding the Mopar anti foam additive?

 

[supraturbo]

I've always heard due to the poor design of the mopar auto's to only use thier atf fluid. Basically they had to design the fluid around the tranny so it would last. I do know the warrenty is totally voided when something other than the mopar atf is used, your playing with fire there.

 

[Gary Allan]

My apologies to James Browning! I've finally found the Mopar additive which is INDEED labled "Antifoam". My local DC Jeep dealer had no knowledge of it. They just buy the spec'd fluid ..period.

I haven't bought this stuff and I haven't actually read documentation that says that this additive is indeed designed to bring Dex III up to 7176 specs ..but it is antifoam.


Never stick it out ..if you don't want to risk getting it chopped off, I guess