UAO Can Am 3000 mi RotellaT

[tc1446]

The second set of numbers below is from the previous test with AMSOIL 10w40
done with 4000mi on oil.

With 3000 mi on Rotella T viscosity (11.5) held to upper 30W, it looks like it
would work as long as one wants to change oil every 3K. No oil was added.

Note, that this is a machine that BRP claims only needs oil changed every 9000+ miles!

I'm running Motul 7100 for the next test and will test it at 4000 mi.

Lab saw no unusual wear numbers but gave the viscosity a Yellow flag.


OIL ADDED...none

OIL CHANGED.. 27 Aug '14
10335....time on unit
3000.....Miles on oil
Shell
Rotella T
SAE 15W40

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 13 14
Chromium (Cr) Lead (Pb) 1 1
Copper (Cu) 5 5
Tin (Sn) 2 1
Aluminium (Al) 7 10
Nickel (Ni) Silver (Ag) Titanium (Ti) Vanadium (V) Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 4 6
Sodium (Na) 39 32
Potassium (K) 6 Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 54 194
Calcium (Ca) 2325 2447
Barium (Ba) Phosphorus (P) 1035 1037
Zinc (Zn) 1218 1181
Molybdenum (Mo) 11 31
Boron (B) 42 21
Contaminants
Water (%) Coolant No No
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 11.5 10.6
Physical / Chemical
Base Number 7.5 8.4

 

[charbaby]

Looks good

 

[Quattro Pete]

Wow... this engine sure beats up on oil.

 

[charbaby]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Wow... this engine sure beats up on oil.


I missed something?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Wow... this engine sure beats up on oil.


I missed something?

It's down to a 30-grade after only 3K miles, and this is with Rotella T 15w40 which is supposed to be very shear stable. Not sure 9K miles that the mfg recommends is a smart idea...

 

[Clevy]

Thanks for doing this used oil analysis. I'm using conventional rotella t in my Harley,and I rarely exceed 3000 miles on the oil,so seeing your used oil analysis makes me 100% confident it's more than capable of running the interval I'm using it for.
That can-am is a shared sump so it's much harder on the viscosity retention than my Harley is,but it does run just as hot.
Thanks again for posting.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Wow... this engine sure beats up on oil.


I missed something?

It's down to a 30-grade after only 3K miles, and this is with Rotella T 15w40 which is supposed to be very shear stable. Not sure 9K miles that the mfg recommends is a smart idea...



No kidding. Rotella 15w40 is very shear stable,so the fact that this machine is mulching the viscosity up in such a short period of time should be a wake up call to all owners of these machines.
15w-40 grade should have very few VII so I wonder if an oil like redline with no VII in some grades would improve longevity?
And would that extra longevity justify the added cost considering rotella t is very cost effective.

 

[tc1446]

I've talked at length on this forum about attempting to find an oil that will last at least to 4000 or more without robbing the bank and based on recommendations of knowledgeable folks here gave Rotella T a try with the expectation that it might not last more than 3000 on the Can Am. Turns out that's true, and I'm not the least bit disappointed. Unless the Motul 7100 turns out to be exceptional, I might decide to make Rotella T my regular oil, with changes every 3000 a standard practice, or go with AMSOIL 10w40 plus a quart of 20-50 which will hold nicely to 4000 or more. I used this mix of Motul also.

I would expect the filter to be good for two or three oil changes, it being the one thing that requires pulling quite a bit of tupperware to get to. The oil has two drain plugs underneath, easy to get at for dumping every 3 to 4K if I decide to go that route.

Right now, I'm still playing with different brands just for the fun of it. There seems to be only a few of us on the Spyderlovers.com forum that care much about oil and how it shears; most seem to feel that if the factory calls for 9300 mi between changes using their syn blend then thats good enough, after all, who am I to suggest the factory might not be right? Some seem to get downright irked with my harping on oil shearing! LOL. I'd love to get a sample of someones oil with that much miles and do a test on it. I bet the stuff would be down to 10W! Or maybe it would go the other way and thicken?

 

[charbaby]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Wow... this engine sure beats up on oil.


I missed something?

It's down to a 30-grade after only 3K miles, and this is with Rotella T 15w40 which is supposed to be very shear stable. Not sure 9K miles that the mfg recommends is a smart idea...


I had assumed that ghe 2nd column(10.6) was from the previous OCI as stated by the OP. Unless the 11.5 cSt is also in the 30 grade range also.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
I had assumed that ghe 2nd column(10.6) was from the previous OCI as stated by the OP. Unless the 11.5 cSt is also in the 30 grade range also.

SAE definition of 30-grade is from 9.3 to 12.5 cSt.

Rotella T starts out at 15.5 cSt, according to TDS.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tc1446
I've talked at length on this forum about attempting to find an oil that will last at least to 4000 or more without robbing the bank and based on recommendations of knowledgeable folks here gave Rotella T a try with the expectation that it might not last more than 3000 on the Can Am. Turns out that's true, and I'm not the least bit disappointed. Unless the Motul 7100 turns out to be exceptional, I might decide to make Rotella T my regular oil, with changes every 3000 a standard practice, or go with AMSOIL 10w40 plus a quart of 20-50 which will hold nicely to 4000 or more. I used this mix of Motul also.

I would expect the filter to be good for two or three oil changes, it being the one thing that requires pulling quite a bit of tupperware to get to. The oil has two drain plugs underneath, easy to get at for dumping every 3 to 4K if I decide to go that route.

Right now, I'm still playing with different brands just for the fun of it. There seems to be only a few of us on the Spyderlovers.com forum that care much about oil and how it shears; most seem to feel that if the factory calls for 9300 mi between changes using their syn blend then thats good enough, after all, who am I to suggest the factory might not be right? Some seem to get downright irked with my harping on oil shearing! LOL. I'd love to get a sample of someones oil with that much miles and do a test on it. I bet the stuff would be down to 10W! Or maybe it would go the other way and thicken?



At some point oxidation would trump the viscosity shear and it would start to thicken however once that point is crossed I think the oil should be changed anyway and not pushed anymore,which makes me very happy you did a used oil analysis on this oil.
The spyder is the hottest machine I've ever ridden,including my 106 cube Harley. I've never been on a bike that throws that kind of heat before.
A friends wife has one and I just had to take it for a spin. Seating position made me feel like I was behind an oven at slow speeds,but I will admit I understand the appeal because they are fun to ride.
Anyways I'm impressed that such an inexpensive oil held up as well as it did. I've seen amsoil samples that didn't fare as well in those machines though riding style certainly plays a part in that.
Again thanks for posting.

 

[tc1446]

Clevy, you're right about the heat. The pre-'14 twin cyl motors really cranked it out, but with the '14 three cyl they added two radiators up in front of the wheel openings so that the resulting radiator heat exhausts out the wheel wells and not back onto the rider. A much refined motor (we hope) and layout. I've been thrilled with mine so far. Some long term oil changers report they added no oil. I've never added a drop to mine either between changes.

 

[sunruh]

nice munch...nom nom nom

9k oci in that motor might get you water when you dump it.

what wt of 7100 are you running?

i really doubt you will see anything better. maybe we will all be shocked.

price wise, srt at 3k is a lot cheaper than amsoil at 4k no matter how you slice it. and im pretty sure the 7100 is even more.

wear metals look good, but i wonder if you double that 4k into 8k if it would still look that good? you would hope so since they say 9k oci, but still makes you wonder if they really intend for you to finish with a 20wt (or less) oil at that oci?

 

[tc1446]

nice munch...nom nom nom

9k oci in that motor might get you water when you dump it.

what wt of 7100 are you running?

i really doubt you will see anything better. maybe we will all be shocked.

price wise, srt at 3k is a lot cheaper than amsoil at 4k no matter how you slice it. and im pretty sure the 7100 is even more.

wear metals look good, but i wonder if you double that 4k into 8k if it would still look that good? you would hope so since they say 9k oci, but still makes you wonder if they really intend for you to finish with a 20wt (or less) oil at that oci? [/quote)

I'm using 4qts 10-40 and one qt 20-50 7100. I'm not expecting any miracles out
of it either but I'm having fun trying/testing different oils. The above formula in Amsoil gave good results out to 4000 miles on my previous Can Am with the twin cyl and expect the same with that formula on the three cyl. Unfortunately, if I get a blown engine for any reason the factory will undoubtedly blame it on my using the wrong oil (20-50) and I'll
be up the creek without a paddle. I'm sure they would if I'm using Rotella as its not a blend or synthetic that they call for. I could try the T6 which fills the bill as far as
factory criteria goes, but it seems that in many tests here on BITOG, T6 sheared out rather quick also. On the other hand, considering its attractive price, it might be worth a try and surely would be safe for 3000 mi. Would be good for winter and by time I finish with the 7100 it'll be getting cold here. Might give it a try.

If I could get a sample of the factory oil at 9000 miles I'd like to lab test it and then
send that to BRP and see if they would respond to it. I expect it would be thin as water. More than likely I'd get a lot of doubletalk, but sometimes they are very forthright.

 

[Clevy]

The new ones are a 3 cylinder. Nice.
Are they bigger,as in more cc's or just the same cc's with smaller pistons?

Sounds like can am listened to the guys griping about heat in the forums then,with the re-design of the venting so the rider doesn't melt.
They are a lot of fun. And on a track you can really lean into turns which for a less experienced rider adds some extra level of safety,though I have seen a lady fall off one once but she cornered real hard and didn't lean at all. Kinda funny to watch only because her only injury was her ego.
I think based on cost per mile rotella is gonna win out here. Although I do understand the fun in trying different oils. I tried lots of them in my Harley before after multiple chats with sunruh I settled on rotella,once I used up all my syn stock and was buying oil for the bike again.
Works great in the primary too

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
The new ones are a 3 cylinder. Nice.
Are they bigger,as in more cc's or just the same cc's with smaller pistons?

Sounds like can am listened to the guys griping about heat in the forums then,with the re-design of the venting so the rider doesn't melt.
They are a lot of fun. And on a track you can really lean into turns which for a less experienced rider adds some extra level of safety,though I have seen a lady fall off one once but she cornered real hard and didn't lean at all. Kinda funny to watch only because her only injury was her ego.
I think based on cost per mile rotella is gonna win out here. Although I do understand the fun in trying different oils. I tried lots of them in my Harley before after multiple chats with sunruh I settled on rotella,once I used up all my syn stock and was buying oil for the bike again.
Works great in the primary too


The 3 cyl is 1330cc as opposed to earlier twins @ 998cc and they changed the paddle shifting to hydralic so when its in gear, its in gear, just as if you were using a manual clutch; unlike pre-'14's with a CVT type. I agree that Rotella, cost wise, can't be beat. It was Sunruh, in previous threads, that convinced me to give it a try.

Have either of you ever used the T6? That one has my curiosity up now! ha.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tc1446
Originally Posted By: Clevy
The new ones are a 3 cylinder. Nice.
Are they bigger,as in more cc's or just the same cc's with smaller pistons?

Sounds like can am listened to the guys griping about heat in the forums then,with the re-design of the venting so the rider doesn't melt.
They are a lot of fun. And on a track you can really lean into turns which for a less experienced rider adds some extra level of safety,though I have seen a lady fall off one once but she cornered real hard and didn't lean at all. Kinda funny to watch only because her only injury was her ego.
I think based on cost per mile rotella is gonna win out here. Although I do understand the fun in trying different oils. I tried lots of them in my Harley before after multiple chats with sunruh I settled on rotella,once I used up all my syn stock and was buying oil for the bike again.
Works great in the primary too


The 3 cyl is 1330cc as opposed to earlier twins @ 998cc and they changed the paddle shifting to hydralic so when its in gear, its in gear, just as if you were using a manual clutch; unlike pre-'14's with a CVT type. I agree that Rotella, cost wise, can't be beat. It was Sunruh, in previous threads, that convinced me to give it a try.

Have either of you ever used the T6? That one has my curiosity up now! ha.



I've used the t-6 in my shared sump bikes and wasn't impressed at all. Shifting got notchy in under 2000 miles,when most every other oil went at least 2500 miles and regular rotella was beyond 3000 miles before I noticed the shift quality suffer.
And cost kinda choked me up because the t-6 was more than double the rotella t.
I've used t-6 in mustangs,trucks and even tried it out in my ope at work and I will say I liked the stuff in my trucks. In the mustang the engine felt held back,like there was more resistance and wasn't as rev happy.
My list of favorite oils in my Harley is short. Having tried both Mobil 1 15w-50 and the 20w-50 v-twin I'll never use it again. Ever.
Amsoil was decent,RP 20w-50 automotive oil was awesome. As was redline automotive 20w-50 and motul 300v 20w-50.
I used a motul oil that was red in the 10w-60 flavour which I liked a lot but all of these mentioned products cost in excess of 15 bucks a quart,so yeah I liked em,but not that much.
And believe it or not old lowly rotella t performs just as well for the 3000 mile interval I run and I don't have to sell a kidney to buy it.
Especially at walmarts prices of under 90 bucks for a 5 gallon pail. And I use it in all my bikes so no more little bottles everywhere and in the garbage.
And the empty pail works great as an old oil container which I leave out for the recycler to pick up for free.
Win win win as far as I'm concerned.

 

[sunruh]

tc1446,
there is no way they could tell what wt oil you put in if the motor blew.

 

[tc1446]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
tc1446,
there is no way they could tell what wt oil you put in if the motor blew.


Thanks Sunruh, very good to know. Also, I have a lot of confidence and a good relationship with the Service guys at the shop I bought it from. I've found that when something needs to
be warrantied, its largely based on what they say and how they deal with BRP. So far, the
new motor appears to be a winner with only a few minor issues.

 

[tc1446]

I didn't expect miracles from Motul and didn't get any. In fact, it did't fare quite
as well as previous Amsoil tests. I replaced the Motul with Mobil 1 10w40/20-50 mix since
Advance had it on sale. Another Can Am owner reported good results so I want to see
how it does for the next 4K.


DATE SAMPLED 16-Mar-15
DATE RECEIVED 24-Mar-15
DATE REPORTED 26-Mar-15

Motul 7100 4qts 10-40, 1 qt 20-50
Time on oil....4000 miles
Time on motor..14,300 miles

Metals (ppm)
Iron (Fe) 12
Chromium (Cr) Lead (Pb) 1
Copper (Cu) 3
Tin (Sn) 3
Aluminium (Al) 9
Nickel (Ni) Silver (Ag) Titanium (Ti) Vanadium (V) Contaminants (ppm)
Silicon (Si) 20
Sodium (Na) 13
Potassium (K) 8
Additives (ppm)
Magnesium (Mg) 20
Calcium (Ca) 2185
Barium (Ba) Phosphorus (P) 960
Zinc (Zn) 1118
Molybdenum (Mo) 24
Boron (B) 11
Contaminants
Water (%) Coolant No
Physical Tests
Viscosity (cSt 100C) 10.7
Physical / Chemical
Base Number (mgKOH/g) 6.5