U.S. Health Care Crisis

[buster]

I'm not in favor of a national healthcare system, but our system is out of control and hurting the economy. A few of the funny things we Americans do that make zero sense to me are the fact that we have the greatest healthcare technology in the world, yet DON'T have the longest life expectancy among other nations. I believe we fall in the middle. So while we constantly are spending money on technology which unltimately raises healthcare costs and is a good thing, we ignore some of the basic lifestyle habits that could increase our life expectancy. Health care costs are going up 14% per year.

*The Health Care market is unique and complicated and in some ways can't be looked at like other markets.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
A few of the funny things we Americans do that make zero sense to me are the fact that we have the greatest healthcare technology in the world, yet DON'T have the longest life expectancy among other nations. I believe we fall in the middle. So while we constantly are spending money on technology which unltimately raises healthcare costs and is a good thing, we ignore some of the basic lifestyle habits that could increase our life expectancy. Health care costs are going up 14% per year.

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It's no mystery. All you need to do is go to Europe and notice what a bunch of fat slobs Americans are on average compared to Europeans. The difference is remarkable, although the British and Germans seem to be catching up. They still have a long ways to go though.

 

[ALS]

Simple solutions.
1. $500 deductable
2. 80/20 to $5,000 = With 1. $1,400

I can't tell you how many of my employees I swear live at their doctors office. Drop the card and $5 prescriptions. It's almost like they look for an excuse to go. Most of the reasons are total Chicken Sh** stuff.

Second, here in the U.S. we have the most cutting edge heath care. That type of care costs money lots of money. Take the average cost to get a new drug to market, it is close to 300 million dollars. Not for that drug alone but for all the money spent on wild goose chases to get one new drug to market. For every new drug that does make it to market, close to 500 others never make the grade and are tossed in the trash. Those 500 that don't make it have cost the drug company from several hundred thousand to several million each in R&D before they ever get a shot at human trials. It would be like someone spending money drilling holes looking for oil and after 200 holes one finally hits black gold. If that was the case oil would be $200 a barrel. What would happen if the Government told Oil companies they could only get $25 a barrel and it cost them $50 a barrel just for exploration and test wells to find an oil field. What company would spend the money?
Same thing is going to happen if the Government ever tries to regulate the medical industry.

Look at the average U.S. citizens life style and eating habits. That alone is 50% of problem. Remember when someone else is paying for the service people don't care what it cost.
If people had to pay $50 every time they stepped into a doctors office they would only go when they were really sick.

If someone said they would pay for your oil changes, tires and fuel and it would cost you $1000 a year for insurance. Most would want Redline oil and change it every 1000-2000 miles.
Everyone would have $200 Z rated tires on their cars and everyone would be filling up with premium fuel. The insurance company would have to charge $3,000 just to break even.

Don't even get me started with the garbage that is going on in Southern California with health care and the illegal's.

[ June 10, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: ALS ]

 

[Durrr]

If everyone here in the US watched their eating habits, I can GUARANTEE the cost of healthcare would dramatically decrease. However, that wont ever happen =P

 

[427Z06]

I think another problem with our health care cost is related to diet. You find foods loaded with government subsidized high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils and other trans fatty acids and God knows what other crap marketed to high heaven in America. There's plenty of peer reviewed research indicating how bad some of this stuff is. Heck, if our government would stop subsidizing some of this crap, educate people with the truth, and require manufacturers to label their poison ladened products properly, I think you wouldn't see so many weight watchers and cancer patients in this country.

 

[csandste]

ALS is right on regarding how things work. You could have a universal single pay and it would work fine AS LONG AS we had some kind of consumer driven plan.

I go to my doctor and argue for the cheapest kind of generic drugs that will control my condition and she looks at me like I'm a real odd duck. Most people want the little purple pill, they don't care much what it does.

One of the consumer driven health plans has a price which adjusts depending on what the charge is. Move from cardiologist A to cardiologist B and the web site states "you've just cut your monthly charge from $311 to $298."

Give me a database showing that doc A's success rate with open heart surgery is 97% and he charges $5000 and doc. B's success rate is 94% and he charges $4000. Make me pay a big slug of that amount and let me make the decision as a consumer.

If that happens, I don't much care whether it's United Health Care OR the feds that actually cut the check.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Durrr:
If everyone here in the US watched their eating habits, I can GUARANTEE the cost of healthcare would dramatically decrease. However, that wont ever happen =P

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If the food peddling corporations could figure out how to make more money selling healthy food than junk food, then billion$ would be spent each year telling Americans why they should go on a healthy diet instead of eat the crap that the billion$ is now spent advertising.

People should be ignoring the advertising telling them to eat junk, but they aren't. If people weren't susceptible to sales pitches, then the advertising industry wouldn't be the giant that it is.

[ June 10, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: XS650 ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

ALS I do not agree with you version of drug costs. If that was the case why is it I can buy medicine in Mexico,Canada and a lot of European Apothocarys for 1/3-1/2 the price of the same drug in the United States. THe drug companys deserve to make a profit but rapeing AMericans for all they are worth ought to be a crime. THeir is no reason that that a drug should cost anymore in the USA then some othr country!

 

[Whimsey]

While a lot of the "instant" meals are convenient and don't taste "too bad" they usually are loaded with fattening "stuff". In actuality making a good healthy simple dinner from scratch is pretty easy and doesn't take a lot of time. Of course I don't have children so I'm sure working parent's circumstances are different. But back to the topic. I don't think that there is a healthcare crisis in the US. As ALS said the problem is healthcare is too easy if you have insurance and too may people abuse the system. My sister was an Emergency Room Nurse in a major city in CT. Trust me "poor people" get free health care in this country. And they also get other "perks" in the health care field that tax paying/insurance paid citizens do not. The only "crisis" we have is too many people "wasting" the medical professions time on normal aches and sniffles. Of course I HATE to go to the doctor for anything

.

Whimsey

 

[The_Jeff]

The drug companies ask "what will the market bear?" as long as that market includes some rich nations when they invest in potential new drugs. Most countries are smart enough to say "we'll pay this and no more." The US market pays a much larger price per prescription and generally subsidizes innovation that the whole world benefits from.

 

[Al]

Lawyers are the biggest problem. Much of the costs involve too many tests to prevent lawsuits. Much of the patients fee is due to liability insurance. The amount of testing on drugs is also to perform iron clad tests again to help in the event of lawsuits. Its a really vicious cycle. Then of course those that can not pay don't pay and you and I pay it.

Three simple solutions would be to limit pain and suffering compensations, have the looser on lawsuits pay all the court and lawyer fees (as they do in England). The third would be a limited tort whereby you limit your right to sue in exchange for lower doctor fees. That is so simple its hard to believe it isn't done.

All this is pie in the sky bc lawyers own the politicians.

 

[Shannow]

Al, I agree.

What they did down here was manipulate the coursts so that no-one wins.

High profile case the other day of a lady who was complaining of abdominal pain for years after surgery, and given the "psychosomatic" type answer by the specialists. Eventually, and X-Ray revealed a pair of scissors left inside her.

She didn't sue, even for a perfectly clear cut case, because it's now been structured so that she'd certianly lose.

We've thrown the baby out with the bathwater on the issue.

People genuinely affected should have an (I agree) limited capacity to sue. Frivolous stuff should be dealt with exactly as it is, and losing lawyers should pay both sides.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Health care costs are going up 14% per year.

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I wonder how much of that is due to "undocumented workers" (to use the PC euphemism for ILLEGAL ALIENS) getting their health care at the emergency room. Hospitals in some of the border states have reportedly had to close because of this---the financial losses forced them out of business.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by ALS:
Don't even get me started with the garbage that is going on in Southern California with health care and the illegal's.

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It's NOT just So. Cal. anymore. It's Northern Illinois and Northern Virginia, too, and probably many places inbetween.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

If the food peddling corporations could figure out how to make more money selling healthy food than junk food

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Maybe if the "food peddling corporations" could figure out how to make healthy food taste as good as junk food, they'd sell more healthy food.

With regards to the cost of junk food vs. healthy food:

They did a study and found that poor people are more likely to be obese.

Now we have the media blaming this on the high cost of eating healthy (from the ABC Nightline Daily E-Mail June 2, 2004):


"When it comes to tackling the mounting obesity epidemic, Americans are inundated by messages of personal responsibility. It is simple, just eat a well-balanced diet with lots of fruits and vegetables and get plenty of exercise, and you will see the pounds melt away. From Oprah and Dr. Phil to the Duchess of York, overweight Americans are encouraged to "get with the program."

But, what if you live in a low-income neighborhood of Detroit, your family food budget is $25 a week, the nearest full-service grocery store is at least a bus ride away, and on the way you pass more than twenty fast-food restaurants? Chances are that you would have a serious weight problem. For people in communities like this, the most widely touted nutritional and physical remedies are financially out of reach, leading many health experts to argue that winning the battle against obesity is more a question of economics than a matter of personal behavior modification."

So really, which way is it? Is it more expensive to eat healthy, or is it more expensive to eat junk food?

Oh, and...I don't think $25 would last more than a day feeding a family at a fast-food place.

The real problem here isn't corporations or poverty. The problem is that people are making choices because our society tries to keep them from having to deal with the consequences.

Or maybe government cheese is too fattening.

 

[mormit]

25 dollars will go a lot farther in the produce isle than in the frozen foods isle or at any fast food joint.

But then again, convenience. People decide what to put in their own mouths.

 

[mormit]

quote:

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Originally posted by eljefino:
The drug companies ask "what will the market bear?" as long as that market includes some rich nations when they invest in potential new drugs. Most countries are smart enough to say "we'll pay this and no more." The US market pays a much larger price per prescription and generally subsidizes innovation that the whole world benefits from.

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I work in the that industry. Not saying there is no blame amongst marketing departments of the big drug companies, but it costs on average 1.5 billion dollars and 10 to 15 years commitment to bring the average new medicine to market. The comany then has ten years to recoup those costs and turn a profit before the patent expires. Most of the people on our site are pushing paper to satisfy the FDA, EMEA, and other regulatory bodies.

I'd like to see two things at least:

1) No more drug ads on TV.

2) If other countries will not pay the whole cost of producing a drug that is regulatory compliant, hold out on selling to them till they pay their fair share.

 

[sprintman]

We are 2nd in the obesity rankings now and determined to be no #1. Look out USA, were gonna beat you!

 

[totttalled]

Allow me to share some of my lesser experiences as a nurse manager (they are the tip of the iceberg, I could write a book):

1. The woman who was addicted to crack and came in on a regular basis for inpatient dialysis (crack kills kidneys) - on a new kidney the county paid for (free transplant). She's still addicted. The unit secretary inputs her data from memory. ("You still live in Apt 8?")

2. The countless drunk drivers handcuffed to the siderails while we repair broken bones, take out spleens, monitor for head trauma, (for free) etc, while they detox and give new meaning to the word "a**hole". It seems their victims always are injured worse.

3. The patient "recently arrived" from Mexico with a social security number 000-00-0000 admitted with FUO, lab tests 48 hours later shows something freaky like TYPHUS. (FUO = fever of unknown origin).

4. The old man with no family left. He says to me one night "you fight in the war because they tell you to. You put your life on the line. You see your friends die. But you live. You come home, get married, buy a house. You spend the rest of your life going to work everyday to pay for it, take care of your family. My son died 15 years ago. My wife's gone five years last May. It's just been me and that house keeping me company. Now I'm sick and I don't qualify for Medicaid because of that house. I have to 'spend down my assets'. I guess I won't be needing it no more anyway."

5. I hear variations on #4 about 3 or 4 times a month. One that sticks out was "...and you think you own that house? Try not paying taxes on it one year, and you'll find out who REALLY owns that house!!"

However, we all carry on with a smile the best we can and deliver the best care we can (or I'll fire 'em). Except maybe for the drunk driver. HIM we'll turbo lax and disconnect his call light. Handcuffed, y'know.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by totttalled:
3. The patient "recently arrived" from Mexico with a social security number 000-00-0000 admitted with FUO, lab tests 48 hours later shows something freaky like TYPHUS. (FUO = fever of unknown origin).

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Gee I wonder who will pay THAT emergency room bill. That one is a write-off, no way to sic a collection agency on that guy without a valid SSN.