Two-stroke oil in four stroke fuel.

M

MGregoir

Messages
1,784
Location
Bonnyville, AB
I have been reading about a variety of doctored fuels, ranging from acetone to two stroke oil and I was wondering Amsoil Saber Outboard or HP Injector, which would be more suitable in an extremely lean mix application. People seem to run conventional in 500:1 ratios, and I wonder if it could be run leaner and still have a positive effect. I don't want to foul plugs or a cat. Any thoughts?
 
S

StevieC

Messages
25,045
Location
ON, Canada eh?
HP Injector or any other TCW-3 will work fine. I use RLI Fuel injection cleaner and it not only keeps the injectors clean but it keeps the tops of the engine well lubricated because it's a thick oily fluid. It's similar to Lucas in viscosity, and a superb product IMO. This honestly makes my cars engine super quiet and it seems to respond much better too. I would highly recommend this instead of using a 2 stroke oil. It costs pennies per fill up because you don't need a lot.
 
S

Steve S

Messages
18,449
Location
East of IGO
What is interesting though it I spent a total of 23 years working at companies that repair forklifts and the lpg engines which is "dry gas"but then doesn't wash the cyl walls as a gasoline engine with a carb run with the choke on or a bad fuel injector and the engines last longer than gasoline ... But the valves and valve seats are the same gasoline and lpg and seem equal in life? I wonder if the top end really needs lubeing?
 
J

Joshua_Skinner

Messages
768
Location
Portland, Oregon
What's the goal of adding 2-stroke oil to the fuel? Reduced wear? Modern EFI systems in good repair do not wash oil off cylinder walls like carbureted vehicles. Combined with higher operating temperatures, better oils, and better matalurgy upper cylinder wear is much, much lower than in older vehicles. Keeping the engine in good tune with a good air cleaner will do more than a little top-end oil.
 
S

StevieC

Messages
25,045
Location
ON, Canada eh?
It's not just the top of the engine, it's the whole fuel system. Your fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, injectors etc... They all benefit from added lubrication. Sure modern fuels do a good enough job on their own, but at BITOG we are all about "better" and using RLI or a TCW3 2 Stroke oil is "better" IMO.
 
P

Peted

Messages
528
Location
Jupiter, florida
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's not just the top of the engine, it's the whole fuel system. Your fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, injectors etc... They all benefit from added lubrication. Sure modern fuels do a good enough job on their own, but at BITOG we are all about "better" and using RLI or a TCW3 2 Stroke oil is "better" IMO.
Will you get the same job done using Lucus UCL?
 
demarpaint

demarpaint

Messages
34,983
Location
NY
I've tried MMO, Lucas, and now TCW3. I didn't like the Lucas product at all, especially the price of it. I feel I have best results with MMO, but I am continuing to experiment with TCW3, and haven't really voided it out yet. TCW3 is much easier to OD an engine with, and a 500:1 ratio is about the most I'd run. MMO suggests a 320:1 ratio with their product. In the winter time the engine seems to fire up faster and easier with a little MMO in the gas. I started TCW3 late in the season so I can't comment about winter starts. I also like the idea that a residual coating of oil remains in the cyl, especially for that first start in the morning. My opinion is that MMO might keep things a little cleaner than TCW3, but TCW3 might offer slightly better compression. Both products are good, and I believe the benefits outweigh any possible dangers, providing you don't use too much of the product.
 
Shannow

Shannow

Messages
43,650
Location
'Stralia
 Originally Posted By: Steve S
What is interesting though it I spent a total of 23 years working at companies that repair forklifts and the lpg engines which is "dry gas"but then doesn't wash the cyl walls as a gasoline engine with a carb run with the choke on or a bad fuel injector and the engines last longer than gasoline ... But the valves and valve seats are the same gasoline and lpg and seem equal in life? I wonder if the top end really needs lubeing?
I think you lot had hardened seats since forever. I was running propane on straight cast iron seats (we didn't get unleaded until 1987), and there was massive exhaust seat recession.
 
S

StevieC

Messages
25,045
Location
ON, Canada eh?
 Originally Posted By: peterdes
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
It's not just the top of the engine, it's the whole fuel system. Your fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, injectors etc... They all benefit from added lubrication. Sure modern fuels do a good enough job on their own, but at BITOG we are all about "better" and using RLI or a TCW3 2 Stroke oil is "better" IMO.
Will you get the same job done using Lucus UCL?
I don't like Lucas as much...
 
S

StevieC

Messages
25,045
Location
ON, Canada eh?
Before you start this treatment, run a good fuel system cleaner than contains PEA like Amsoil PI to fully clean the system thoroughly. Then once you have cleaned it, start your treatment to keep things lubricated and clean. \:\!
 
M

Mephy

Messages
309
Location
Toronto
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
HP Injector or any other TCW-3 will work fine. I use RLI Fuel injection cleaner and it not only keeps the injectors clean but it keeps the tops of the engine well lubricated because it's a thick oily fluid. It's similar to Lucas in viscosity, and a superb product IMO. This honestly makes my cars engine super quiet and it seems to respond much better too. I would highly recommend this instead of using a 2 stroke oil. It costs pennies per fill up because you don't need a lot.
Where did you find RLI Fuel injection cleaner? I live in Toronto area as you Thanks
 
M

Mephy

Messages
309
Location
Toronto
 Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I've tried MMO, Lucas, and now TCW3. I didn't like the Lucas product at all, especially the price of it. I feel I have best results with MMO, but I am continuing to experiment with TCW3, and haven't really voided it out yet. TCW3 is much easier to OD an engine with, and a 500:1 ratio is about the most I'd run. MMO suggests a 320:1 ratio with their product. In the winter time the engine seems to fire up faster and easier with a little MMO in the gas. I started TCW3 late in the season so I can't comment about winter starts. I also like the idea that a residual coating of oil remains in the cyl, especially for that first start in the morning. My opinion is that MMO might keep things a little cleaner than TCW3, but TCW3 might offer slightly better compression. Both products are good, and I believe the benefits outweigh any possible dangers, providing you don't use too much of the product.
Lucas has the same price of Amsoil HP Injector. But the two product are totally different quality. I have used Lucas, the only good thing that has compared to TC-W3 oil is the smell. The car used to loose power if I was going over 1:800 ratio,the consume was a bit better but with same amount of TC-W3 the car is more quiet and respond better to the acceleration. Technically I have a big doubt about the residue in the combustion chamber, Just if you look to the flash point TC-W3 is very low and Lucas Is very high. TC-W3 has the ability to clean itself thanks the solvents present in it, Lucas clearly say No added solvents. Next fill up I will try HP Injector that has 30% of solvents more than standard TC-W3 I will see how it goes. My ratio is lower than 500:1 I use between 700-800:1.
 
S

StevieC

Messages
25,045
Location
ON, Canada eh?
 Originally Posted By: Mephy
Where did you find RLI Fuel injection cleaner? I live in Toronto area as you Thanks
There is a distributor I deal with that is located in Bolton and he is a great guy. His name is Don. You can go to the RLI website and find his contact info. Link Here (Top left corner) I purchased mine from the US and had it shipped, but since I have been purchasing all their products from Don at a better price than with shipping/duty added.
 
M

Mephy

Messages
309
Location
Toronto
 Originally Posted By: StevieC
 Originally Posted By: Mephy
Where did you find RLI Fuel injection cleaner? I live in Toronto area as you Thanks
There is a distributor I deal with that is located in Bolton and he is a great guy. His name is Don. You can go to the RLI website and find his contact info. Link Here (Top left corner) I purchased mine from the US and had it shipped, but since I have been purchasing all their products from Don at a better price than with shipping/duty added.
But it is not a 2 cycle oil, isn't it ?
 
Last edited:
K

KLowD9x

Messages
313
Location
Lugoff, SC
 Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
Very informative thread about the very subject. Long read but very good info.Lot of feedback. http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91206
 Originally Posted By: from ls1.com forums
Yeah but ATF has phosphorus and that kills catalytic converters and is a short term cleaning solution. ATF has no lubricating properties either. This is a long term full spectrum cleaning/lubricating solution.
Obviously, ATF is a lubricant. If it had no lubricating properties, the bearings in automagic transmissions would seize regularly.
 
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