Truly dry start

[ericthepig]

I've often read on BITOG of folks starting their engine (esp. right after an oil chg) and their engine sounds like it's falling apart. I've always wondered about these post and the people who post them.

But, my Sienna is now basically in storage (in drive way, soon to be in the garage) and will only be used for long trips (we don't want three growing kids in the back of the Mazda 6). Anyway, I hadn't started the Sienna in almost 2 wks - then started it last Saturday - scared the daylights out of me - for about five seconds (seemed longer) - the engine souned like a bunch of empty cans falling off a shelf (startled one of my kids in the front yard). Never heard anything like it before. For about 1 minute it continued to tick, and then it went back to 100% smooth. Drove it around and it sounded perfect.

Note to self - start this engine once/wk and take it for an evaporation run occassionally.

Apparently PP 5w20 totally drains off the engine parts - perhaps any oil would do this. Otherwise still very plsed with Penz. Plat.

 

[ericthepig]

On a similar note, my sister's boy friend owns a small plane - he uses Schaeffer 7000 in it - he had it dry docked for a few months and ended up rusting the engine and had to do an overhaul (which he did himself - just takes it into a friend to sign the certification - that doesn't sound cool - but he's not me).

 

[Steve S]

All the oil doesn't drain off. The oil filter can empty.

 

[dnewton3]

2x the above. Likely that the ADBV didn't ADB. Best defense for this is choosing a quality filter with a silicon (red) ADBV.

 

[Ls_Dx]

eeek i hate those dry starts!

 

[JAG]

The two times I had very bad sounding starts were after I:
1. Let oil drain way too long during an oil change

2. Did an Amsoil Engine Flush right before changing the oil

 

[Eddie]

I agree with dnewton3 as it sounds like a filter issue. You may wish to try a different brand. OEM, WIX or ??

 

[Firehawk409]

I start my firebird up maybe once every 2 weeks sometimes once a month. When I had penzzoil YB 10w30 and an AC delco filter it would make tapping noises at start up which would go away after a minute or two of idleing. Now that i have Mobil 1 40w with a Mobil 1 filter it starts up with ZERO noise(other then the noise of the cutout being open)and sounds very healthy...as if it was cranked up everyday. It was a night and day differnce. With the YB and AC combo it always felt like it was struggling. I dont know if the fault is on the oil or the filter.

 

[ericthepig]

I was wondering if the filter might have something to do with it - I replaced it later that same day - previously had a PureOne (been on there since last November - over several OCIs) - I put a Wally ST filter on Saturday afternoon. I could/might do a test and let it sit again and start it - but I'm almost afraid to. But if it was the filter, seems like this should happen on a regular basis - this van has been starting perfectly smooth until this "dry" start. I'm leaning toward the dry start theory - btw, I think it had actually only been sitting for a wk. Wondering if I should drop a heavy oil in for this "storage".

 

[demarpaint]

One of my vans would sit sometimes in the garage for months at a time. I bought a pre-luber, this one is an electric pump mounted under the hood with a toggle switch. I flip the switch and watch the OP gauge as it heads into the safe zone, then I start the van. No taps, ticks, raps, or rattles.....They aren't cheap but they do eliminate dry starts totally.

They are also useful in cooling an engine after a long drive, shut the engine flip the switch and pump oil while the engine is off.

HTH,
Frank D

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I have to admit, I have NEVER Experienced this. I work a rotational schedule and often leave a vehicle parked in the garage for 2-6 weeks. I have had a 2002 tacoma, my 2006 tacoma and now my 2008 jeep that have all experience not being started for 2-6 weeks at a time. This is on 3 differnt vehicle types.
Using synthetic and conventional oils and oil filters with good ADBV materials and just plain supertechs. When It is time to use these vehicle I open the garage door, Start the engine, I do listen to it and usually I just get a nice high idle start with the normal sounds of fuel injectors and internal hydraulic systems charging up and getting to work , check my gauges, and back out the garage and go about my way. My vehicle then are used for 2 weeks to do work such as hauling materials or for play such as going 4 wheeling or to the beach for fishing. I clean them up and park them in the garage and repeat when I get home in 2 or so weeks again. My wife usually picks one vehicle to drive and the other one gets to rest in my absence.

 

[ericthepig]

Bryan, same here w/ my Mazda 323 - that thing has sit for several wks at a time - starts right up (sometimes it does tic though). I'm wondering about this PP 20 grade - that stuff may vacate the area. (?)

May head back to Schaeffer (still have a jug of 15w40 - only has about 1k on it - long story) - platting the metal with a moly AF coat probably wouldn't hurt - plus it's thicker. I'm pretty sure either the Sch. or some cheap dino 10w40 is going in soon (may save the Schaeffer for next summers vacation season - just use the dino as a winter "storage" oil. (?))

 

[Bryanccfshr]

In this case I agree that you may be losing oil film in time do to drain off. I don't entirely blame viscosity for this. To me this is an issue of if the oil has a polar affinity to your engine surfaces. Super Pure Grp III and IV oils have very little polarity. They don't have any affinity towards the metal and quickly flow through an engine. and back to the pan.

I do routinely use Lube control in my engines and perhaps this helps with that although I haven't used LC in the Jeep and it hasn't displayed any problems using Pennzoil 5w20 YB and a supertech filter after sitting for the first 3 weeks of July in the garage. In this scenario I think conventional oil is superior. A high content Ester oil may also be good for this routine (as far as being polar)if I could be convinced that the PE was not so hydroscopic sitting idle in a crankcase.

An oil such a Schaeffer's would probably perform quite well in this regimen since the moly is probably in a polar state and the mix of Grp II ad IV makes it a "wetter" oil than a purely Grp III or PAO oil would be.

 

[Black_Thunder]

i've had a few dry starts with my old Explorer after it sat for or week or so.


sounds terrible!!!



still runs like a champ

 

[bar1]

My '96 Audi S6 (I5 turbo engine) and my '05 GM Opel Astra(I4 engine) has sat for more than 2 months a couple of times. Both use synthetic oil and both sounded normal at startup.

 

[ThirdeYe]

That definitely sounds like a filter issue, the oil likely failed to stay in the filter because of a faulty/defective ADBV. My sister used to have a nice late '90's Firebird in mint condition that we used to store in the winter and we would start it up once every few weeks to a month and let it run for a while and we never had any unusual noises on start-up, and that was using conventional Valvoline and a generic oil filter that the dealership installed.

 

[mechtech2]

Like mentioned, oil filters have anti drainback valves, sometimes two of them. Not all replacements are the same, or the same quality.
Replacing the oil filter may very well fix this.
But it may also be a valve lifter that leaked down under spring pressure. Try the new factory filter, first.

 

[OVERKILL]

My Mustang used to sit the entire winter and get fired up in the spring. No noise.

But I've fired a few marine motors that sounded very death-like until the oil started flowing.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

What sounds deathlike? A ford powerstroke that is parked overnight at -30 with oil that has 800 or more hours on it(mostly idleing hours) . You go out and the temp has dropped to -30, the truck was supposed to be plugged in but was not. The truck is cold but not too cold yet to start...the engine starts but the oil doesn't flow for several minutes and from the sound of it it is obvious.

Walk away and go inside while the truck warms up.... listening to that sound will make a BITOGer cry.

 

[AEHaas]

I took the Ferrari out for a spin, came in and changed the oil and filter. I also emptied the lines because I was changing brands of oil. The system was empty. When I started it up it made that unbelievably loud noise for a full 15 seconds, then utter silence. The car was only shut off for 20 minutes or so. Oil falling off the parts was not the culprit in any way.

I did the same for the Expedition. Only this time I also changed the coolant as well. It took over an hour for these to be accomplished. I forgot to even put oil in the car. I turned it on, and turned on the lights and a/c to force a faster warm up. I sat there a full minute before I realized I had no oil in the engine, let alone a dry filter. There was no unusual noises at all. It was as quiet as normal.

Who knows the difference?

aehaas