I never know what to call my vehicle - import or domestic. It is a '92 Mazda B-4000, 5-speed manual, made in Canada, mostly Ford. Oh, well... Just 3 days ago I started noticing a slight high pitched transmission whine while under power. Also, while up-shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd, I hear another momentary whine. If I double-clutch while shifting, I don’t hear that whine. None of these noises are particularly loud, and they are not a gear-grind type of sound. I can turn up the radio a little bit and they are not noticeable, but they are a new/different sound and I am concerned about what the problem may be. Although I have not seen any sign of drips in the driveway where I park, I am going to check the lubricant level in the tranny. In checking my owners manual, it shows to use Dexron III ATF. Is that possibly correct? I am accustomed to using 90W gear lube in straight shift gearboxes. Assuming the fluid level is OK, what should I do at this point? I hesitate to pull the transmission and have it disassembled just for a whine. Should I wait and see if it seems to get worse? I don’t want to spend $$ unnecessarily, nor sooner than I must, if a delay won’t make any eventual repairs cost more than it would at this time. Any suggestions – both concerning the noise itself and the proper gear lube? Thanks
Transmission Lubricant ??
- Thread starter thiggy
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Kestas
Staff member
I can't comment on what the noise may be. I'd stay with the fluid recommended for your transmission. It's common to specify Dexron III for manual transmissions. I'd say all you can really do is change out the fluid, make sure fluid is at the proper level, and if it gets worse, schedule a time to have your transmission rebuilt.
Well, are there any placards/stickers in the engine bay that will specify Dextron III?
That would be for choosing the right fluid.
Are the syncros worn?
I do find it odd that you mention that it was made in Canada.... I thought B series were made along with the Ford Rangers in Minnesota, Kentucky or New Jersey. I had an 81 Ranger a long time ago.
That would be for choosing the right fluid.
Are the syncros worn?
I do find it odd that you mention that it was made in Canada.... I thought B series were made along with the Ford Rangers in Minnesota, Kentucky or New Jersey. I had an 81 Ranger a long time ago.
could be the throw out bearing, check the oil level (or change) in the tranny and rear end. other than that just turn the radio up. if it is the throw out bearing you can do that when you change the clutch. personally I wouldn't worry about it short of checking the oil levels.
If you are referring to those Mazda/Ford pickup "clones" with M/T gear box, I would say: stay away from those darn DexronIII A/T fluids, as recommended by Ford as OE fill.
Reason behind this is numerous. I had this argument with numerous boards and through my persistent posting (even to Japanese Mazda boards for my Ford 121/Festiva), the truth is, Festiva M/T in Japan or even straight off of Kia plant in S.Korea, came stock with 75W gear lube. In Japan, Mazda 121, just like many K-cars and light duty vehicles, require 70W~75W weight gear oils. 65W ~75W gear lubes are readily available off the shelves and Mazda service fills for most cars are 70W80 or commonly 75W90 lubes.
One of my undisclosed Ford engineering sources told me that they had encountered resistances within the group of "old boys" and the "engineers" between the use of Dexron in M/T boxes that requires proper heavy weight gear lube with EP additives in it: the pro side said that Dexron is enough in terms of lubricity (gotta think twice if I'm in their shoes) and so on.....while the cons argued that the Dexron does not provide proper friction coefficient that the synchros are designed for (this is mostly hold true for rebranded Ford imports, YMMV).
So as the story goes: the "engineers" group failed because of some political reasons and Dexron in M/T gearbox stayed.
For your Ford pickup clone, granted that you have not abused your gearbox much and you are willing to give it a try, your best bet is to try AutoRxing with 80W90 dino gear lube first to see if (a) gear slip/clash during shifting and (b)significant reduction in whining.
If this works out fine, then follow the rest of the AutoRx flushing/rinsing instructions and then refill your M/T gearbox with proper heavyweight gear lube.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out, ok?
p.s. insufficient EP additives and also high-temperature decomposition are the main issues with Dexron in regular synchro-ed M/T boxex
Reason behind this is numerous. I had this argument with numerous boards and through my persistent posting (even to Japanese Mazda boards for my Ford 121/Festiva), the truth is, Festiva M/T in Japan or even straight off of Kia plant in S.Korea, came stock with 75W gear lube. In Japan, Mazda 121, just like many K-cars and light duty vehicles, require 70W~75W weight gear oils. 65W ~75W gear lubes are readily available off the shelves and Mazda service fills for most cars are 70W80 or commonly 75W90 lubes.
One of my undisclosed Ford engineering sources told me that they had encountered resistances within the group of "old boys" and the "engineers" between the use of Dexron in M/T boxes that requires proper heavy weight gear lube with EP additives in it: the pro side said that Dexron is enough in terms of lubricity (gotta think twice if I'm in their shoes) and so on.....while the cons argued that the Dexron does not provide proper friction coefficient that the synchros are designed for (this is mostly hold true for rebranded Ford imports, YMMV).
So as the story goes: the "engineers" group failed because of some political reasons and Dexron in M/T gearbox stayed.
For your Ford pickup clone, granted that you have not abused your gearbox much and you are willing to give it a try, your best bet is to try AutoRxing with 80W90 dino gear lube first to see if (a) gear slip/clash during shifting and (b)significant reduction in whining.
If this works out fine, then follow the rest of the AutoRx flushing/rinsing instructions and then refill your M/T gearbox with proper heavyweight gear lube.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out, ok?
p.s. insufficient EP additives and also high-temperature decomposition are the main issues with Dexron in regular synchro-ed M/T boxex
MolaKule
Staff member
Our MTFGlide (ATF replacement fluid) and SynchroGlide (synchromesh replacement) have solved many shifting and wear problems. All our MTF fluids have almost zero shear. And you don't have to pay the dealer's high prices.
http://www.specialtyformulations.com
http://www.specialtyformulations.com
I ran a couple of Mazda's back in the late 80's and early 90's and the shifting started to get a little tight after about 60,000 miles so I tried Redline MTL in the gear box with very good results. No more sticking, noise or anything. Felt like a warm knife thru butter when shifting. Another one to try would be Redline D4ATF. Used that in my Contour and it did wonders there too. Both are excellent choices for your gear box IMHO.
gear wine is normally caused by the slack between the gears. it has been my expierence that american transmission wine more than imports.
my dads old saginaw 4 speed wines louder in the forward gears than my moms honda does in reverse! its amazing, the thing sounds like a gear driven blower.
my dads old saginaw 4 speed wines louder in the forward gears than my moms honda does in reverse! its amazing, the thing sounds like a gear driven blower.
Do NOT, I repeat NOT, put a sulfur/phos 75W-90 or 80W-90 in the Mazda transmission that calls for Dexron (there are different transmissions out there, but almost all call for Dexron in the Mazda/Ford Ranger series.
I have a 97 Ranger what I bought with 16,000 km on it and GL-5 80W-90 in the transmission. It took two oil changes and the wear in between to finally get to smooth shifting. Ford wanted $850 in parts to replace the brass syncronizers that were coated/coroded with the additive, and the ends of which had been chewed off by not fully synchronizing.
Those synchronizers are wide and conical. They cannot fully displace a thicker oil. They must have the thinner oil.
I now have slightly more than 200,000 km on that Ranger, mostly on mountain dirt roads or the city, always with loads of 900 to 1300 lbs and the transmission is like it was supposed to be when new.
I have "fixed" the Ford/Mazda transmissions of dozens of pickups simply by removing the 80W-90 and putting Dexron back in, convincing them to be patient while the Dexron cleans up the mess left by the sulfur/phos.
Change out the transmission oil with a good Dexron III. It may be degraded enough or be too contaminated to do it's job.
I have a 97 Ranger what I bought with 16,000 km on it and GL-5 80W-90 in the transmission. It took two oil changes and the wear in between to finally get to smooth shifting. Ford wanted $850 in parts to replace the brass syncronizers that were coated/coroded with the additive, and the ends of which had been chewed off by not fully synchronizing.
Those synchronizers are wide and conical. They cannot fully displace a thicker oil. They must have the thinner oil.
I now have slightly more than 200,000 km on that Ranger, mostly on mountain dirt roads or the city, always with loads of 900 to 1300 lbs and the transmission is like it was supposed to be when new.
I have "fixed" the Ford/Mazda transmissions of dozens of pickups simply by removing the 80W-90 and putting Dexron back in, convincing them to be patient while the Dexron cleans up the mess left by the sulfur/phos.
Change out the transmission oil with a good Dexron III. It may be degraded enough or be too contaminated to do it's job.
widman - In the USA, it's hard to find gear lube that is unbuffered with respect to sulfur additives.
MolaKule
Staff member
With respect to buffering of the EP additive package, I have to tell you about the EP package we use in our gear lubes.
The primary EP add pack comes in drums and since it is fairly thick (high viscosity) we have to use piston pumps to pump it out for adding to our base oils.
Now bear in mind, these pumping components are in DIRECT CONTACT with the concentrated EP additive.
The piston (yes, I just had to take the pump apart to see how they are constructed) has two brass "piston rings" arranged with their split ends 180 degrees apart (Rings have 0.125 wide faces and have a depth of 0.09375" for the grooves). After over two years of pumping this EP stuff, I pulled the piston and inspected the brass rings. NO stains, no corrosion, no pitting, no wear, pressure still like new. The cylinders are still shiny with no measureable wear.
This gives me good confidence that our fluids are very kind to copper-alloy parts such as brass and bronze synchronizers, sleeve bearings, etc.
[ January 24, 2005, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
The primary EP add pack comes in drums and since it is fairly thick (high viscosity) we have to use piston pumps to pump it out for adding to our base oils.
Now bear in mind, these pumping components are in DIRECT CONTACT with the concentrated EP additive.
The piston (yes, I just had to take the pump apart to see how they are constructed) has two brass "piston rings" arranged with their split ends 180 degrees apart (Rings have 0.125 wide faces and have a depth of 0.09375" for the grooves). After over two years of pumping this EP stuff, I pulled the piston and inspected the brass rings. NO stains, no corrosion, no pitting, no wear, pressure still like new. The cylinders are still shiny with no measureable wear.
This gives me good confidence that our fluids are very kind to copper-alloy parts such as brass and bronze synchronizers, sleeve bearings, etc.
[ January 24, 2005, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
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