Traffic controls / red light cams

[John105]

I'm always on my best behavior when there are cams. I pass through red light cams every day to work, no speed cams. The only possibility of running a light is if pressured by someone behind.

Yesterday, while in Delaware, had a dilemma where I know the logical answer. I'm at a red light intersection, with cams looking my way, and the light turned red. Do I make a right turn on red after a full stop? Why not? My mind did ask itself, did I miss a no turn on red sign, that's my only possibility of getting a ticket.

Oddly, the two cars in front of me, didn't even stop at all, let alone come to a complete stop as I did.

This is what I found, which explains the behavior.

https://deldot.gov/Programs/red_light/pdfs/ERLSP-FAQ.pdf

I'm also a bit weird in that I've been into this stuff back to the 35mm days such as 2002. My wife's position is if people don't run lights (as she doesn't), then who even cares at all? She has a point, but I do

 

[D60]

I'm just shocked Delaware would actually write a law saying they canNOT do a given a thing.

Give it a few years and they'll amend it complete with heavy penalties. The argument will be "safety."

 

[GMBoy]

Texas used to have red light cameras - I got a ticket once because I rolled thru the turn, didn't make a full stop. They reviewed the camera footage personally on right turns and if no complete stop - ticket issued. All the cameras have since went away - good riddance they were not constitutionally valid.

 

[andrewg]

Red light cameras are nothing more than a revenue scam.

 

[Cherrybomb]

I received a turning right,not complete stop ticket. The camera showed my mag wheels barely rolling.The wording said you couldn't show the video to the judge.You couldn't ask if cars,their were two ahead and one behind got tickets.I was out of state,so I just considered it small town revenue,no points.Illinois,Chicago area what more can you say?

 

[eljefino]

Red light cameras are nothing more than a revenue scam.

Especially if run by a private/public partnership.

 

[GMBoy]

Especially if run by a private/public partnership.

Which they almost always are

 

[Number_35]

My biggest beef with red-light cameras is that in some cases the cameras were not generating enough revenue, so the authorities shortened the yellow light time.

This did result in more tickets, and thus more revenue, but created more accidents.

This sort of thing happens when public employees forget who they're working for (the citizens), and why (for the welfare of the citizens).

 

[SevenBizzos]

Right turns generate 90% of the violations. The standard I am familiar with is that you will be cited if the reviewer can show you behind the stop line AND the light red. To me, that's very late and is a fair judgment as to whether you committed a violation.
As for Chicago, everyone is aware that the speed for earning a violation is at least 6mph over. The ones I know that live there just consider it a cost of living there. Not a big deal. I think it's $35 for 6-10 over and $100 above that.
I have never received a red light violation and likely never will because I actually stop.

 

[Chris142]

The fines here were stupid high when caught by a camera. A guy I knew drove for 1800radiator got 3 tickets in a week for stopping just past the limit line. They even sent a video to watch.

Each infraction was over $900+ fees. Cost him over $3k and his job as it counted as running a red even though he did stop. Just had his bumper about 4 inches over the limit line

 

[John105]

Which they almost always are

NJ ended their red light camera program Dec. 2014. The hardware is still there in some locations. That should be negotiations 201, if we terminate the agreement, you, the vendor, must remove it at your cost.

The technology has changed a lot so outdated equipment is unsightly.

I don’t like them but where I live is the wild Wild West. The only reason we don’t have Squeeze Benzes in Phila is there’s just no room like NYC. But there is zero enforcement, unlike NYC. So why not have automated enforcement. I really don’t think any of us are for complete and utter lawlessness…

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I'm always on my best behavior when there are cams. I pass through red light cams every day to work, no speed cams. The only possibility of running a light is if pressured by someone behind.

Your eyes should not be in your rear view mirror when about to be right under a yellow light about to turn red. The driver behind you has nothing to do with your decision to stop at the light or proceed. Always make a decision quickly and always have your eyes left, right or in front of you. Look left and right when vehicles have a tendency to time the green light poorly and will ultimately t-bone you, if you are concentrating on behind you, instead of what's on both sides of you at the intersection, or what's in front of you.

I've been driving professionally for just over 50 years and if you tell a cop that pulls you over for running a red light and tell the cop you did it because of the uncertainty the guy behind you might not stop in time behind you and possibly hit your rear end, he has heard that story thousands of times and will tell you to concentrate on what's in front of you and what's on the both sides of you, as you either enter the intersection, or make a quick decision to either blow the red light or (best answer) just stop as the light's now timed to turn red.

That's the worst spot for a driver to be concentrating on the rear view mirror, instead of front of you or both sides. You are an accident waiting to happen John. Don't be a victim for middle of the intersection accidents, because your eyes were in the wrong place at the wrong time and you made a slow, wrongful decision to enter the intersection in the first place..

 

[Pew]

Quite a few red light/speeding cameras around Chicago. There are even street signs posted where they are but somehow one of our drivers racked up over $1000 speeding violations in a month, in our company vehicles.

 

[sloinker]

Don't they make those prismatic appliques that cover your license plates that make it impossible for cameras to render a legible photograph?

 

[Pew]

Don't they make those prismatic appliques that cover your license plates that make it impossible for cameras to render a legible photograph?

Those are "illegal" (enforcement is another issue...)

I've always wondered if starch will do the same thing though. You look at someone with starched cammies with an nvg at night and they light up like a Christmas tree.

 

[John105]

Your eyes should not be in your rear view mirror when about to be right under a yellow light about to turn red. The driver behind you has nothing to do with your decision to stop at the light or proceed. Always make a decision quickly and always have your eyes left, right or in front of you. Look left and right when vehicles have a tendency to time the green light poorly and will ultimately t-bone you, if you are concentrating on behind you, instead of what's on both sides of you at the intersection, or what's in front of you.

I've been driving professionally for just over 50 years and if you tell a cop that pulls you over for running a red light and tell the cop you did it because of the uncertainty the guy behind you might not stop in time behind you and possibly hit your rear end, he has heard that story thousands of times and will tell you to concentrate on what's in front of you and what's on the both sides of you, as you either enter the intersection, or make a quick decision to either blow the red light or (best answer) just stop as the light's now timed to turn red.

That's the worst spot for a driver to be concentrating on the rear view mirror, instead of front of you or both sides. You are an accident waiting to happen John. Don't be a victim for middle of the intersection accidents, because your eyes were in the wrong place at the wrong time and you made a slow, wrongful decision to enter the intersection in the first place..

I’m not sure if the rear view mirror applies to me. I’ll illustrate.

Once I was in West Philly, and a school bus had yellows. Yellows normally turn to red quickly, so I stopped. About 75-90 secs went by, and the car behind me honked. I decided to go. At that time, the school bus honked. I looked in the mirror and the bus’ lights were red.

I realized I went because the driver honked. That could have cost me my license in PA.

Two things. I don’t react as thoughtlessly to someone’s horn today. And it also made me realize yellow to red, on a school bus, is a human function. Not the same as a traffic signal which is the same every time (1 sec for each mph of speed limit). Due to the possibility of losing one’s license, I am super extra careful with school buses and don’t care too much about others who are in a rush behind me (I am in a rush too but extra careful).

 

[Kira]

I have never received a red light violation and likely never will because I actually stop.

Now there's a concept!

 

[John105]

Now there's a concept!

Imho there’s a little more to it. For example, the way a 16 yo stays on side in ice hockey, is a lot different than a player in the NHL. But both must do it, in order for play to continue into the O zone.

There are people in PA, who come to a complete stop, behind the stop line, on a solid green light. They wait for yellow, red, and the next green, to make their turn. They are 100% sure to not run the light.

Maybe this type of driver exists in other states, but I have only seen it in PA. They’ll never get a ticket, but their inconsideration is a cost to society.

To take a step back, red light running is being behind the stop line, having the light turn to red, and proceeding. Even yellow doesn’t count.

 

[Astro14]

Your eyes should not be in your rear view mirror when about to be right under a yellow light about to turn red. The driver behind you has nothing to do with your decision to stop at the light or proceed. Always make a decision quickly and always have your eyes left, right or in front of you. Look left and right when vehicles have a tendency to time the green light poorly and will ultimately t-bone you, if you are concentrating on behind you, instead of what's on both sides of you at the intersection, or what's in front of you.

I've been driving professionally for just over 50 years and if you tell a cop that pulls you over for running a red light and tell the cop you did it because of the uncertainty the guy behind you might not stop in time behind you and possibly hit your rear end, he has heard that story thousands of times and will tell you to concentrate on what's in front of you and what's on the both sides of you, as you either enter the intersection, or make a quick decision to either blow the red light or (best answer) just stop as the light's now timed to turn red.

That's the worst spot for a driver to be concentrating on the rear view mirror, instead of front of you or both sides. You are an accident waiting to happen John. Don't be a victim for middle of the intersection accidents, because your eyes were in the wrong place at the wrong time and you made a slow, wrongful decision to enter the intersection in the first place..

So, you haven’t been rear-ended lately have you?

What John was describing was his basic situational awareness.

I completely agree with the concept of being aware of your surroundings, and tailoring your decisions to everything that is going on around you. Blindly ignoring the person behind you can lead to a crash, even if it’s their fault.

I tend to stop early on a yellow, and I don’t push the red, but anytime I have to hit the brakes quickly, I ensure that my current situational awareness is as good as it can be with a quick glance in the rearview mirror.

There are many times when I’ve hit the brakes hard and then punched the hazard lights because the bozo behind me showed no indication of slowing down.

My neighbor's 2018 Toyota Tacoma was recently totaled. He stopped at a traffic light, and the person behind him failed to notice that he stopped. She hit him hard enough to bend the frame on the Tacoma and total her own car.

So what is the greater risk? Pushing the yellow, perhaps running a red, or getting into a rear end collision in which two cars are totaled, and the driver of one of them might be injured?

 

[KrisZ]

I’ve read somewhere that red light cameras cause more rear end collisions as people slam on their brakes to avoid a citation.

Also, many municipalities have been caught shortening the yellow light below standard limits to generate more revenue.

In other words, these cameras are there to milk money, not to keep the intersections safe.