Curious if anyone here has tried Lubegard platinum in toyota WS atf? I have had great success with lubegard RED and their power steering protectant in the past. Thinking about trying it in the lexus. Figure it can only help WS. Thoughts?
Toyota WS + Lubegard platinum?
- Thread starter AzFireGuy79
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I'm not following, why do you think the WS needs help?
Nobody on the board knows for sure if Lubegard Platinum will help the Toyota WS or not, because nobody tried it before ? I have Lubegard Red in E430, LS400 and Mercury Tracer, it seems to smooth the shifting of the LS400 and Mercury Tracer, but no difference in the E430. I have a bottle of Lubegard Platinum, I will try it in the E430 when it is time to change the ATF in about 2-3 years.
Why don't you try it and post your experience.
Why don't you try it and post your experience.
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
Figure it can only help WS. Thoughts?
I figure it could go either way.
Early complete fluid exchange maybe to Amsoil ATL and an in-line filter would be my plan for a 2009 Lexus. A bottle of additive not so much.
Figure it can only help WS. Thoughts?
I figure it could go either way.
Early complete fluid exchange maybe to Amsoil ATL and an in-line filter would be my plan for a 2009 Lexus. A bottle of additive not so much.
I'm on the fence with ATL. I don't know of any other IS250 owners running it. I hate being an early adopter of anything if I can help it. Not saying ATL isnt a great synthetic ATF, just not so sure its twice as good as WS.
If I remember correctly, my IS does not have any cooler lines running to the radiator, so a inline filter might not be possible. They look too hidden to get at from prior inspections. This weekend I plan to take the car apart a bit further to investigate exactly where the lines go from the external trans thermostat.
If I remember correctly, my IS does not have any cooler lines running to the radiator, so a inline filter might not be possible. They look too hidden to get at from prior inspections. This weekend I plan to take the car apart a bit further to investigate exactly where the lines go from the external trans thermostat.
Resurrecting an old thread.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
Originally Posted By: writes123
Resurrecting an old thread.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Resurrecting an old thread.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: writes123
Resurrecting an old thread.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Critic,
I really appreciate you bringing up this warning to me. The car has been running the mix for around 4500 miles so far.
For clarification I called the Lubegard people and asked them specifically about their platinum and HF fluid additives with Toyota Prius CVTs. Their explanation was that Toyota WS is a standard ATF fluid not a CVT specific fluid. Additionally they stated that the Toyota CVTs, since they all call for WS, are the exception to the rule of no platinum fluid with CVT engines. I noted that they really should emphasize that point in their literature. The main benefits of adding platinum to factory WS vs adding it to Dextron VI, is that it would lower operating temperature and decrease wear. Adding it to Dextron VI would "make it" a Toyota WS alternative fluid like Maxlife ATF or Amsoil fuel efficient or Red Line D6 fluids.
If I were to have problem it'd be with slipping....but CVTs detecting slippage is a bit different...so.....
The only precaution they gave me what that since the capacity is 3.5 quarts to 3.9 quarts to follow the 1 oz per quart rule strictly so as not to have too much additive due to the lower overall capacity.
On a side note, is Aisin's WS fluid the same as Toyota WS? Aisin now sells ATF WS and Type IV under their own name as well.
Originally Posted By: writes123
Resurrecting an old thread.
I've recently performed the 1st ATF service on my newly acquired 2005 Toyota Prius with 101k. Fluid had never been changed. Drained out the factory fill WS and put in fresh WS and Lubegard Platinum (4-5 oz) since 3.5 quarts is total capacity. Overdid the Lubegard a bit.
Haven't noticed any difference so far. Will change it out in 10-15k. Still not sure if I'll invest in 25 dollars for a UOA since only costs around 30 DIY. Probably not.
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Critic,
I really appreciate you bringing up this warning to me. The car has been running the mix for around 4500 miles so far.
For clarification I called the Lubegard people and asked them specifically about their platinum and HF fluid additives with Toyota Prius CVTs. Their explanation was that Toyota WS is a standard ATF fluid not a CVT specific fluid. Additionally they stated that the Toyota CVTs, since they all call for WS, are the exception to the rule of no platinum fluid with CVT engines. I noted that they really should emphasize that point in their literature. The main benefits of adding platinum to factory WS vs adding it to Dextron VI, is that it would lower operating temperature and decrease wear. Adding it to Dextron VI would "make it" a Toyota WS alternative fluid like Maxlife ATF or Amsoil fuel efficient or Red Line D6 fluids.
If I were to have problem it'd be with slipping....but CVTs detecting slippage is a bit different...so.....
The only precaution they gave me what that since the capacity is 3.5 quarts to 3.9 quarts to follow the 1 oz per quart rule strictly so as not to have too much additive due to the lower overall capacity.
On a side note, is Aisin's WS fluid the same as Toyota WS? Aisin now sells ATF WS and Type IV under their own name as well.
Last edited:
Aisin's WS fluid is the same at toyota's. the Type IV is probably made by Mobil (as they are the OE supplier of it anyway). I wouldn't be surprised if WS is made by them too.
I'm using LG Plat in my '12 Fusion which specs MC LV.
No problems so far and I don't expect any either!
I'm using LG Plat in my '12 Fusion which specs MC LV.
No problems so far and I don't expect any either!
Mobil and Idemitsu are Toyota's OEM ATF suppliers. And the Toyota hybrid tranny!=CVT - the fluid is also a dielectric as well. Use straight ATF-WS only.
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- Jul 11, 2014
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Every modern transmission has electrical components.
Every week there is some new internet scare tactic trying to force the usage of some OE fluid.
Every week there is some new internet scare tactic trying to force the usage of some OE fluid.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: nthach
Mobil and Idemitsu are Toyota's OEM ATF suppliers. And the Toyota hybrid tranny!=CVT - the fluid is also a dielectric as well. Use straight ATF-WS only.
Any fluid that has metallic chemistry is a poor dielectric, and ATF is a poor dielectric.
Mobil and Idemitsu are Toyota's OEM ATF suppliers. And the Toyota hybrid tranny!=CVT - the fluid is also a dielectric as well. Use straight ATF-WS only.
Any fluid that has metallic chemistry is a poor dielectric, and ATF is a poor dielectric.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Actually, no, that's not the reason Lubegard warn against CVT application.
The real belt / pulley or torodial CVT uses friction to hold continuous sliding belt / pulley / disk / torodial in place to change ratio and from what I remember back then they require some special additives that will BITE into steel / steel contact surface to prevent slipping. Once slipped, the whole transmission is toasted and need new friction parts.
Toyota's hybrid CVT is actually just planetary gear with 2 electric motors and 1 engine, and NO FRICTION SURFACE at all, not even clutch packs. In theory this is the transmission that even GL5 gear oil can work well in. If Toyota is confident enough to use WS in it then it has nothing to do with the CVT warning you see on other fluid.
The only thing I could think of that some vendor (like Redline) backtrack from their original recommendation of Dex VI like viscosity fluid in WS, is the lack of some detergents to prevent acid build up that attacks plastic inside the tranny.
Now if you are concerned about electrical insulation inside the tranny, that's a valid concern, but that has nothing to do with the typical CVT disclaimer or the Toyota hybrid design.
You do realize that there are electrical components inside of that CVT, right?
I would immediately drain out your concoction and put in only WS and nothing else.
If there's a transmission NOT to experiment with, it is this one.
In fact, Lubegard even says on their page, that the product is NOT for use in CVT applications:
Quote:
For use with any specified ATF recommended by the car manufacturer, such as OEM types and
DEXRON®/MERCON® ATF’s.
(Except Ford Type F ATF or CVT applications)
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-113/LUBEGARD+Platinum+Universal+ATF+Protectant
Actually, no, that's not the reason Lubegard warn against CVT application.
The real belt / pulley or torodial CVT uses friction to hold continuous sliding belt / pulley / disk / torodial in place to change ratio and from what I remember back then they require some special additives that will BITE into steel / steel contact surface to prevent slipping. Once slipped, the whole transmission is toasted and need new friction parts.
Toyota's hybrid CVT is actually just planetary gear with 2 electric motors and 1 engine, and NO FRICTION SURFACE at all, not even clutch packs. In theory this is the transmission that even GL5 gear oil can work well in. If Toyota is confident enough to use WS in it then it has nothing to do with the CVT warning you see on other fluid.
The only thing I could think of that some vendor (like Redline) backtrack from their original recommendation of Dex VI like viscosity fluid in WS, is the lack of some detergents to prevent acid build up that attacks plastic inside the tranny.
Now if you are concerned about electrical insulation inside the tranny, that's a valid concern, but that has nothing to do with the typical CVT disclaimer or the Toyota hybrid design.
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
I'm on the fence with ATL. I don't know of any other IS250 owners running it. I hate being an early adopter of anything if I can help it. Not saying ATL isnt a great synthetic ATF, just not so sure its twice as good as WS.
If I remember correctly, my IS does not have any cooler lines running to the radiator, so a inline filter might not be possible. They look too hidden to get at from prior inspections. This weekend I plan to take the car apart a bit further to investigate exactly where the lines go from the external trans thermostat.
Answer to the resurrected post: I think it is SnapOn that has a flush machine for this transmission type, that you can flush the tranny from the coolant port going into the transmission. I'd find a dealer that has this machine and do the work there.
I'm on the fence with ATL. I don't know of any other IS250 owners running it. I hate being an early adopter of anything if I can help it. Not saying ATL isnt a great synthetic ATF, just not so sure its twice as good as WS.
If I remember correctly, my IS does not have any cooler lines running to the radiator, so a inline filter might not be possible. They look too hidden to get at from prior inspections. This weekend I plan to take the car apart a bit further to investigate exactly where the lines go from the external trans thermostat.
Answer to the resurrected post: I think it is SnapOn that has a flush machine for this transmission type, that you can flush the tranny from the coolant port going into the transmission. I'd find a dealer that has this machine and do the work there.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
The only thing I could think of that some vendor (like Redline) backtrack from their original recommendation of Dex VI like viscosity fluid in WS, is the lack of some detergents to prevent acid build up that attacks plastic inside the tranny.
Most CVT's with the belts and variable cone pulleys rely on a special friction modifier with the proper "Traction" coefficients. I seriously doubt it had anything to do acid buildup as the slight amount of detergent and metal inhibitors in ATF take care of that.
I would not use any thrid-party additive such as Lubegard or whatever as they were designed for step-autos with wet clutches.
Redline developed a CVT fluid just for the belt and variable cone pulley system.
Quote:
Now if you are concerned about electrical insulation inside the tranny, that's a valid concern, but that has nothing to do with the typical CVT disclaimer or the Toyota hybrid design.
The electrical insulation inside a transmission is designed to resist any attack by AT additives.
The insulation serves as the dielectric.
The only thing I could think of that some vendor (like Redline) backtrack from their original recommendation of Dex VI like viscosity fluid in WS, is the lack of some detergents to prevent acid build up that attacks plastic inside the tranny.
Most CVT's with the belts and variable cone pulleys rely on a special friction modifier with the proper "Traction" coefficients. I seriously doubt it had anything to do acid buildup as the slight amount of detergent and metal inhibitors in ATF take care of that.
I would not use any thrid-party additive such as Lubegard or whatever as they were designed for step-autos with wet clutches.
Redline developed a CVT fluid just for the belt and variable cone pulley system.
Quote:
Now if you are concerned about electrical insulation inside the tranny, that's a valid concern, but that has nothing to do with the typical CVT disclaimer or the Toyota hybrid design.
The electrical insulation inside a transmission is designed to resist any attack by AT additives.
The insulation serves as the dielectric.
Last edited:
MolaKule,
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
MolaKule,
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
They backtracked to D4 which must be a viscosity decision.
I have a 07 Prius also and since new have used Redline D6 with spectacularly good wear number UOA's. After the first 30K I pulled it and ran a UOA and noticed although wear looked awesome but the Tan was creeping up a tiny bit. So there's where the WS helps a little as it has a calcium pack on board for Tan mitigation but there's a wear factor there too with that pack so its a trade off. Me personally I would prefer to use Redline and get no wear whatsoever change it every 30K.
And this thread is a breath of fresh air by folks who know what there talking about. The Critic has been scaring people for years now over at Priuschat if you don't use WS your Prius trans will short out. WS has dielectric proprieties!!If you don't use WS it will eat the windings!!
Total [censored]! Been on D6 for 80K and car loves it.The prius planetary trans would probably run on mineral oil.
The windings could care less what you use there insulation is extremely strong.Trans fluid doe not bother plastic components either. Modern auto's are loaded with plastic parts and coated wires.
And to the Prius poster change the Invert fluid next its way overdue. The Inverter is very hard on the fluid and conversely the ICE is very easy on the coolant.
MolaKule,
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
They backtracked to D4 which must be a viscosity decision.
I have a 07 Prius also and since new have used Redline D6 with spectacularly good wear number UOA's. After the first 30K I pulled it and ran a UOA and noticed although wear looked awesome but the Tan was creeping up a tiny bit. So there's where the WS helps a little as it has a calcium pack on board for Tan mitigation but there's a wear factor there too with that pack so its a trade off. Me personally I would prefer to use Redline and get no wear whatsoever change it every 30K.
And this thread is a breath of fresh air by folks who know what there talking about. The Critic has been scaring people for years now over at Priuschat if you don't use WS your Prius trans will short out. WS has dielectric proprieties!!If you don't use WS it will eat the windings!!
Total [censored]! Been on D6 for 80K and car loves it.The prius planetary trans would probably run on mineral oil.
The windings could care less what you use there insulation is extremely strong.Trans fluid doe not bother plastic components either. Modern auto's are loaded with plastic parts and coated wires.
And to the Prius poster change the Invert fluid next its way overdue. The Inverter is very hard on the fluid and conversely the ICE is very easy on the coolant.
Originally Posted By: Raybo
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
MolaKule,
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
They backtracked to D4 which must be a viscosity decision.
I have a 07 Prius also and since new have used Redline D6 with spectacularly good wear number UOA's. After the first 30K I pulled it and ran a UOA and noticed although wear looked awesome but the Tan was creeping up a tiny bit. So there's where the WS helps a little as it has a calcium pack on board for Tan mitigation but there's a wear factor there too with that pack so its a trade off. Me personally I would prefer to use Redline and get no wear whatsoever change it every 30K.
And this thread is a breath of fresh air by folks who know what there talking about. The Critic has been scaring people for years now over at Priuschat if you don't use WS your Prius trans will short out. WS has dielectric proprieties!!If you don't use WS it will eat the windings!!
Total [censored]! Been on D6 for 80K and car loves it.The prius planetary trans would probably run on mineral oil.
The windings could care less what you use there insulation is extremely strong.Trans fluid doe not bother plastic components either. Modern auto's are loaded with plastic parts and coated wires.
And to the Prius poster change the Invert fluid next its way overdue. The Inverter is very hard on the fluid and conversely the ICE is very easy on the coolant.
Quite frankly, I think it is quite irresponsible of you and others to make recommendations that go against the OEM recommendations.
The aftermarket is known to be very difficult to collect on when it comes to any questionable fluid-related claims. Even if you *know* (or think you do) that the fluid was unrelated to the failure, if there is any doubt that the fluid was involved, the OEMs have been known to play hardball in those situations. Sure, you may be be right, but most users do not have the resources to fight those claims - so you are always better off avoiding those situations to begin with.
The electrical concerns were raised by a few users on Priuschat; I did not make those up myself. With that said, Molakule is likely right with his statements given his background, so I do accept that I may be incorrect on that matter.
However, it doesn't change the fact that while your transmission (and a few others) worked just fine on D6 - it is just a small sample size.
I suspect that you do not have knowledge of the transmission function in the way that you assume. Similarly, you are quite incorrect about the inverter coolant; there is nothing to suggest that the prius inverter is hard on coolant. In fact, there are probably more issues caused by amateurs who fail to correctly bleed the inverter coolant loop after service.
Lastly, for the enthusiast (and any rational consumer), there is little benefit in considering unlicensed aftermarket fluids. Most of the aftermarket fluids on the market were made to benefit the production shops that do not want to stock a wide variety of fluids. The rest of them are boutique fluids that were built to satisfy the theoretical needs of a few users - and are generally made by whole in the wall operations with questionable expertise and technical resources. At the end of the time, the point that I am trying to drive home is that it really isn't worth the risk to be messing around with these aftermarket fluids.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
MolaKule,
Sorry, I should have put my word better. What I said was, the backtrack of recommending D6 for WS on regular automatic transmission, not CVT.
They backtracked to D4 which must be a viscosity decision.
I have a 07 Prius also and since new have used Redline D6 with spectacularly good wear number UOA's. After the first 30K I pulled it and ran a UOA and noticed although wear looked awesome but the Tan was creeping up a tiny bit. So there's where the WS helps a little as it has a calcium pack on board for Tan mitigation but there's a wear factor there too with that pack so its a trade off. Me personally I would prefer to use Redline and get no wear whatsoever change it every 30K.
And this thread is a breath of fresh air by folks who know what there talking about. The Critic has been scaring people for years now over at Priuschat if you don't use WS your Prius trans will short out. WS has dielectric proprieties!!If you don't use WS it will eat the windings!!
Total [censored]! Been on D6 for 80K and car loves it.The prius planetary trans would probably run on mineral oil.
The windings could care less what you use there insulation is extremely strong.Trans fluid doe not bother plastic components either. Modern auto's are loaded with plastic parts and coated wires.
And to the Prius poster change the Invert fluid next its way overdue. The Inverter is very hard on the fluid and conversely the ICE is very easy on the coolant.
Quite frankly, I think it is quite irresponsible of you and others to make recommendations that go against the OEM recommendations.
The aftermarket is known to be very difficult to collect on when it comes to any questionable fluid-related claims. Even if you *know* (or think you do) that the fluid was unrelated to the failure, if there is any doubt that the fluid was involved, the OEMs have been known to play hardball in those situations. Sure, you may be be right, but most users do not have the resources to fight those claims - so you are always better off avoiding those situations to begin with.
The electrical concerns were raised by a few users on Priuschat; I did not make those up myself. With that said, Molakule is likely right with his statements given his background, so I do accept that I may be incorrect on that matter.
However, it doesn't change the fact that while your transmission (and a few others) worked just fine on D6 - it is just a small sample size.
I suspect that you do not have knowledge of the transmission function in the way that you assume. Similarly, you are quite incorrect about the inverter coolant; there is nothing to suggest that the prius inverter is hard on coolant. In fact, there are probably more issues caused by amateurs who fail to correctly bleed the inverter coolant loop after service.
Lastly, for the enthusiast (and any rational consumer), there is little benefit in considering unlicensed aftermarket fluids. Most of the aftermarket fluids on the market were made to benefit the production shops that do not want to stock a wide variety of fluids. The rest of them are boutique fluids that were built to satisfy the theoretical needs of a few users - and are generally made by whole in the wall operations with questionable expertise and technical resources. At the end of the time, the point that I am trying to drive home is that it really isn't worth the risk to be messing around with these aftermarket fluids.
Last edited:
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