ok i am confused! are these links saying: spIV is the same as ws? or is it just saying they both meet the same standard? or does the genesis come with a transmision from the toyota family?
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Toyota WS fluid
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Originally Posted By: caravanmike
ok i am confused! are these links saying: spIV is the same as ws? or is it just saying they both meet the same standard? or does the genesis come with a transmision from the toyota family?
I don't know what you're talking about. What spIV?
As for Aisin transmissions, they are used in Toyota and many other brands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions
ok i am confused! are these links saying: spIV is the same as ws? or is it just saying they both meet the same standard? or does the genesis come with a transmision from the toyota family?
I don't know what you're talking about. What spIV?
As for Aisin transmissions, they are used in Toyota and many other brands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
ok i am confused! are these links saying: spIV is the same as ws? or is it just saying they both meet the same standard? or does the genesis come with a transmision from the toyota family?
I don't know what you're talking about. What spIV?
As for Aisin transmissions, they are used in Toyota and many other brands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions
ok I understand. I was assuming that the genesis came with a hyundai sourced transmission and was using hyundai fluid. Thanks for educating me!
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
ok i am confused! are these links saying: spIV is the same as ws? or is it just saying they both meet the same standard? or does the genesis come with a transmision from the toyota family?
I don't know what you're talking about. What spIV?
As for Aisin transmissions, they are used in Toyota and many other brands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions
ok I understand. I was assuming that the genesis came with a hyundai sourced transmission and was using hyundai fluid. Thanks for educating me!
Originally Posted By: laserred96gt
On the contrary whats the longest anybody has gone without replacing The fluid and the vehicle still runs fine ?
Friend's gf went about 170-180k before changing it on their 2006 RAV4.
On the contrary whats the longest anybody has gone without replacing The fluid and the vehicle still runs fine ?
Friend's gf went about 170-180k before changing it on their 2006 RAV4.
Originally Posted By: laserred96gt
On the contrary whats the longest anybody has gone without replacing The fluid and the vehicle still runs fine ?
I saw on Yaris forum someone going 240,000 miles on WS without ATF change.
It doesn't surprise me. Of course Toyota and/or Aisin did a study before starting the lifetime fluid thing.
On the contrary whats the longest anybody has gone without replacing The fluid and the vehicle still runs fine ?
I saw on Yaris forum someone going 240,000 miles on WS without ATF change.
It doesn't surprise me. Of course Toyota and/or Aisin did a study before starting the lifetime fluid thing.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Here is my experience of a WS failure at 125k. Just food for thought.
125k in a SUV. May have seen some severe service. As unfortunate as that failure was, the lifespan of that transmission was probably well within the intended lifespan.
Whether a fluid change would've made a difference is a guess at best.
Here is my experience of a WS failure at 125k. Just food for thought.
125k in a SUV. May have seen some severe service. As unfortunate as that failure was, the lifespan of that transmission was probably well within the intended lifespan.
Whether a fluid change would've made a difference is a guess at best.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Here is my experience of a WS failure at 125k. Just food for thought.
I read that post of yours on 2006 RAV4. You said the fluid was pitch black. It was probably because the tranny ate the clutches.
I saw a number of posts on RAV4world about similar tranny failures near 100,000 miles in I4 RAV4. Mine is also 2006, but V6. When I changed fluid at 30,000 miles (to see if tranny whine goes away) the fluid was like new. The tranny got replaced at near 40,000 miles under warranty. RAV4 is not a very reliable car and 2006 was the first year of a major redesign.
Here is how pan looks in a V6 RAV4 at 100,000 miles (factory WS). Looks like pretty good to me.
Here is my experience of a WS failure at 125k. Just food for thought.
I read that post of yours on 2006 RAV4. You said the fluid was pitch black. It was probably because the tranny ate the clutches.
I saw a number of posts on RAV4world about similar tranny failures near 100,000 miles in I4 RAV4. Mine is also 2006, but V6. When I changed fluid at 30,000 miles (to see if tranny whine goes away) the fluid was like new. The tranny got replaced at near 40,000 miles under warranty. RAV4 is not a very reliable car and 2006 was the first year of a major redesign.
Here is how pan looks in a V6 RAV4 at 100,000 miles (factory WS). Looks like pretty good to me.
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You both have good points. I suppose without having knowledge of the rebuild that I'm sure happened next, we'll never know. That being said, a few gallons of Maxlife at 60k and 120k certainly wouldn't have hurt anything. The WS I pulled out of my Tacoma at 70k was starting to go brownish purple, so I can imagine it being ugly at 125k too. Here is that project.
For info, the Rav was operated in moderate service. She lived in the suburbs and had a 15 mile commute that was probably 1/3 city 2/3 highway. She isn't a crazy driver, but there was some stop-and-go in the mix along with 10 miles of 65 mph with the cruise control set.
For info, the Rav was operated in moderate service. She lived in the suburbs and had a 15 mile commute that was probably 1/3 city 2/3 highway. She isn't a crazy driver, but there was some stop-and-go in the mix along with 10 miles of 65 mph with the cruise control set.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The WS I pulled out of my Tacoma at 70k was starting to go brownish purple
WS turning purple when exposed to daytime light used to be a characteristic property of WS. The newer batches don't do it.
Here is a picture:
from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3233806/interesting_discovery:_Toyota_#Post3233806
The WS I pulled out of my Tacoma at 70k was starting to go brownish purple
WS turning purple when exposed to daytime light used to be a characteristic property of WS. The newer batches don't do it.
Here is a picture:
from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3233806/interesting_discovery:_Toyota_#Post3233806
Yes, I saw your thread. The stuff that came out of my Tacoma was more brownish and had not been exposed to daylight when I photographed it. The picture in my thread was right from the tap. The Tacoma had an easy life too; one trip of towing about 3,500 lbs. but the rest was easy commuting. I ended up trading the truck in, but the 90 minutes and $70 that I spent on ATF was a good way to keep a happy transmission, I believe.
I suppose any transmission has a chance of lasting a long time with the original fluid. For me, a change at the 60k mark is an easy and cheap way to keep that part happy. That's every four years in my case. Not a big deal.
I suppose any transmission has a chance of lasting a long time with the original fluid. For me, a change at the 60k mark is an easy and cheap way to keep that part happy. That's every four years in my case. Not a big deal.
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
For me, a change at the 60k mark is an easy and cheap way to keep that part happy.
I agree. 60,000 mile is a nice compromise between overmaintenance and neglect. I just did a 66,000 mile tranny service (including filter) in a new to me Yaris and plan to do 60,000 OCIs in my other cars using WS.
For me, a change at the 60k mark is an easy and cheap way to keep that part happy.
I agree. 60,000 mile is a nice compromise between overmaintenance and neglect. I just did a 66,000 mile tranny service (including filter) in a new to me Yaris and plan to do 60,000 OCIs in my other cars using WS.
My WS was kinda brownish, so I changed it at 78k. It was very black on the bottom of the pan. Would it have lasted 150k plus? Probably, but I'd think the transmission would have required a rebuild at that time: Toyota makes extensive use of "flex lockup" and I have no idea how long the clutch in the torque convertor would last using that "feature". Fluid also runs very hot coming off the convertor, like 230 plus if you let it. I wonder if some of the WS failures could be related to flex lockup usage?
jacek, I thought you were a RAV4 fan? I have to say, I was scared off the V6 models, between the 5spd whine, water pump and general thought that it was 10lb of stuff crammed into a 5lb bag. The 2.5 is a bit weak in the platform but so far it's been ok in our Camry; sometimes I think I wouldn't mind that RAV4/I4/4spd for an all-season runabout.
jacek, I thought you were a RAV4 fan? I have to say, I was scared off the V6 models, between the 5spd whine, water pump and general thought that it was 10lb of stuff crammed into a 5lb bag. The 2.5 is a bit weak in the platform but so far it's been ok in our Camry; sometimes I think I wouldn't mind that RAV4/I4/4spd for an all-season runabout.
***ANTIQUE THREAD RESURRECTION!!***
After reading this thread and several others about the favorable compatibility between MaxLife synthetic ATF and Toyota's $$ WS variety, I've decided to do a MaxLife "spill & fill" tranny service on my '05 Tundra (V-ate/5-spd auto). I'll also be dropping the pan for a "look/see" and to clean the pickup screen (aka, "filter").
It's one of them thar "sealed" trannies with no dipstick, so I had to read up about the proper fill procedure on "TundraSolutions" and I bought a cheap lube pump that fits into the neck of a MaxLife gallon bottle. I already own a RayTek infrared temp gun that I'll be using to "read" the pan surface to ensure the recommended 46°C (115°F) temp when looking for "overflow" dribbling outta the checking plug.
Anyway.....if no one else has noticed (unlikely), the absolute cheapest price I've found for the 773775 MaxLife Dex/Merc full-synthetic ATF is at (gasp) Walmart!! Their "regular" price (what I paid today, anyway) is $16.97/gal - which works out to just under $4.25/qt!! CHEERS!
C'ya - RAY
After reading this thread and several others about the favorable compatibility between MaxLife synthetic ATF and Toyota's $$ WS variety, I've decided to do a MaxLife "spill & fill" tranny service on my '05 Tundra (V-ate/5-spd auto). I'll also be dropping the pan for a "look/see" and to clean the pickup screen (aka, "filter").
It's one of them thar "sealed" trannies with no dipstick, so I had to read up about the proper fill procedure on "TundraSolutions" and I bought a cheap lube pump that fits into the neck of a MaxLife gallon bottle. I already own a RayTek infrared temp gun that I'll be using to "read" the pan surface to ensure the recommended 46°C (115°F) temp when looking for "overflow" dribbling outta the checking plug.
Anyway.....if no one else has noticed (unlikely), the absolute cheapest price I've found for the 773775 MaxLife Dex/Merc full-synthetic ATF is at (gasp) Walmart!! Their "regular" price (what I paid today, anyway) is $16.97/gal - which works out to just under $4.25/qt!! CHEERS!
C'ya - RAY
Welcome Ray!
Maxlife is a fine choice for WS applications. Good luck with the swap, and please let us know how it drives afterward.
Maxlife is a fine choice for WS applications. Good luck with the swap, and please let us know how it drives afterward.
If you are trying to get the temp. right for the level check on your Tundra, when I did my Tacoma I used my Scan tool's real time data monitor to watch the tranny temp get at or near 115 degrees. When I saw 110 show up I got under the truck and did the level check plug. Works like a champ. Are you doing the cooler line purge and fill to get almost 100% fluid change?
As any of y'all can tell by my "registration date", I've been lurking for awhile - but, THANX for the official "welcome", Bandito!
Cutlass - I wasn't planning on doing anything but dropping the pan, cleaning the screen and replenishing the oil. I purchased this truck used with 100K+ on the clock, from a Toyota dealership who claimed the previous owner was a retired Air Force officer.
Therefore, I have no service records on it. Hopefully, the PO had a flush or two done at some point during his ownership - but I have no way of knowing. It shifts fine, but I haven't seen the trans oil yet, since there's no dipstick - so I'll proceed with the "tranny service" according to what the old oil looks like when I take out the drain plug.
If it's still pinkish (or close), I'll probably do as I originally intended. OTOH, if it's dark brown or worse - I'll probably grab another 2 gals of MaxLife and change out 12qts total with the more time-consuming "cooler-line method". I have a Rotary 9K hoist in my garage, so I don't have to crawl around under the truck (too old for that anyway, lol).
As a retired ASE-certified "Master Mechanic", I know a little bit about car repair/maintenance - so let me just offer some insight on the subject of tranny flushes. There's a common misconception about the so-called "100% fluid exchange" that's touted by those selling flushes (regardless of which machine is used) &/or using what is essentially the same process by doing it manually with the "cooler-line method".
The "100%" description of fluid exchange wrongly ASSumes that there's some kinda imaginary "line of demarcation" between the old and new fluid where it "meets" inside the trans & converter.....IOW, that there's no mixing of the two, lol.
Granted, there will be a far greater rate of fluid exchange with a proper flush - compared to the old "spill & fill" method - by forcing new fluid in at the same rate that the old is expelled - but certainly nowhere near 100%. As a result of mixing, I would GUESS that it might be closer to 60 or 70%, but DUNNO!! My 2¢.....
C'ya - RAY
Cutlass - I wasn't planning on doing anything but dropping the pan, cleaning the screen and replenishing the oil. I purchased this truck used with 100K+ on the clock, from a Toyota dealership who claimed the previous owner was a retired Air Force officer.
Therefore, I have no service records on it. Hopefully, the PO had a flush or two done at some point during his ownership - but I have no way of knowing. It shifts fine, but I haven't seen the trans oil yet, since there's no dipstick - so I'll proceed with the "tranny service" according to what the old oil looks like when I take out the drain plug.
If it's still pinkish (or close), I'll probably do as I originally intended. OTOH, if it's dark brown or worse - I'll probably grab another 2 gals of MaxLife and change out 12qts total with the more time-consuming "cooler-line method". I have a Rotary 9K hoist in my garage, so I don't have to crawl around under the truck (too old for that anyway, lol).
As a retired ASE-certified "Master Mechanic", I know a little bit about car repair/maintenance - so let me just offer some insight on the subject of tranny flushes. There's a common misconception about the so-called "100% fluid exchange" that's touted by those selling flushes (regardless of which machine is used) &/or using what is essentially the same process by doing it manually with the "cooler-line method".
The "100%" description of fluid exchange wrongly ASSumes that there's some kinda imaginary "line of demarcation" between the old and new fluid where it "meets" inside the trans & converter.....IOW, that there's no mixing of the two, lol.
Granted, there will be a far greater rate of fluid exchange with a proper flush - compared to the old "spill & fill" method - by forcing new fluid in at the same rate that the old is expelled - but certainly nowhere near 100%. As a result of mixing, I would GUESS that it might be closer to 60 or 70%, but DUNNO!! My 2¢.....
C'ya - RAY
I've read all this with interest. Like moto94536, mine is an old, high mileage Camry V6 (1996, 301,000+ miles. 541E 4-speed, lock-up converter, purchased new). Specs call for Dexron II. I simply pull the A/T drain plug (I don't even drop the pan) every 15,000 miles & replace 2.5 quarts of Mobil-1 ATF. The result is that fine old transmission shifts as smoothly as it did in 1996. It's a little funny to read the recommendations for this fluid or that as a replacement for WS by those with vehicles only a few years old with "perfect" transmissions that have less than a third the mileage that moto94536 and I have accumulated, with no mechanical problems on the factory recommended fluid. I, like moto, have a Toyota (Tundra V8, 2003, 165,000 miles) that uses the T-IV, and I maintain it by pan drains every 15,000 miles, using T-IV, with excellent results. My wife's new V6 Camry has that durn sealed transmission and uses WS. When it is changed, WS will go back in it. I really feel moto94536's post is the one most valuable in this thread, because of the accumulated mileage on his vehicle.
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