Toyota Truck Buyback
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Originally Posted By: glennc
GM has made plenty of junk. That's the reason they are where they are even if they are not making junk today.
Yup, GM's 1/2 ton truck frames weren't all that great either a number of years ago.
GM has made plenty of junk. That's the reason they are where they are even if they are not making junk today.
Yup, GM's 1/2 ton truck frames weren't all that great either a number of years ago.
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Some pics of the Toyota frame issue:
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Originally Posted By: cousincletus
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That's because GM doesn't make junk like that. An intake gasket costs about what a timing belt costs on an import, and gives plenty of warning.
CC, respectfully, I must disagree, at least in part. GM knowingly continued to make 60-deg V-6s for around a decade, consciously deciding that it would be less expensive for them to keep on making them that way. And the failing gasket's warning signs are only apparent to those who know what to look for. I'd wager that the vast majority of customers who got screwed on this one hadn't a clue what an intake gasket was until after their engine had ground itself to bits.
And hey, if your vehicle is kaput, and it will cost near ACV or more to fix it, does it really matter whether it's a frame or an engine that's the culprit?
And again, at least Toyota is doing something for these post-wty customers, and all other banter aside, that's more than you can say for GM.
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That's because GM doesn't make junk like that. An intake gasket costs about what a timing belt costs on an import, and gives plenty of warning.
CC, respectfully, I must disagree, at least in part. GM knowingly continued to make 60-deg V-6s for around a decade, consciously deciding that it would be less expensive for them to keep on making them that way. And the failing gasket's warning signs are only apparent to those who know what to look for. I'd wager that the vast majority of customers who got screwed on this one hadn't a clue what an intake gasket was until after their engine had ground itself to bits.
And hey, if your vehicle is kaput, and it will cost near ACV or more to fix it, does it really matter whether it's a frame or an engine that's the culprit?
And again, at least Toyota is doing something for these post-wty customers, and all other banter aside, that's more than you can say for GM.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Some pics of the Toyota frame issue:
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Lovely pictures. As happy as I've been with our Toyotas, I'll agree that this is a pig that no amount of lipstick can save...
Some pics of the Toyota frame issue:
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Lovely pictures. As happy as I've been with our Toyotas, I'll agree that this is a pig that no amount of lipstick can save...
Nothing a skilled welder can't fix...
Pfft I can fix that with duct tape.
Quote by elpolk:
"CC, respectfully, I must disagree, at least in part. GM knowingly continued to make 60-deg V-6s for around a decade, consciously deciding that it would be less expensive for them to keep on making them that way. And the failing gasket's warning signs are only apparent to those who know what to look for. I'd wager that the vast majority of customers who got screwed on this one hadn't a clue what an intake gasket was until after their engine had ground itself to bits.
And hey, if your vehicle is kaput, and it will cost near ACV or more to fix it, does it really matter whether it's a frame or an engine that's the culprit?
And again, at least Toyota is doing something for these post-wty customers, and all other banter aside, that's more than you can say for GM. "
And from 1997 to 2004 Toyota knowingly made sludge monster V6s that they blamed their customers for. It wasn't until the real problem was figured out and a class action law-suit was pending until toyota decided to pay for their mistake. And Toyota still blamed their customers - but hey toyota's so wonderful they'll pay for it anyway. Bottom line; the biggest common denomiator here is the buck doesn't stop with Toyota - they pass it on. It's always someone elses fault. Bad American workers/mechanics, bad American oil and gasoline, improper maintenance, owners not getting oil changes. You name it. Pass the buck. What does it do for Toyota? You can buy an identical Pontiac Vibe for thousands less than a Toyota Matrix. Makes a Toyota sticker on your hood worth $3,000. I have a feeling Toyota is going to keep lying and using marketing money to buy back "somebody elses" faulty supplied parts/frames. Money talks.
And Elkpolk, you sound like one of Toyotas lawyers.
"CC, respectfully, I must disagree, at least in part. GM knowingly continued to make 60-deg V-6s for around a decade, consciously deciding that it would be less expensive for them to keep on making them that way. And the failing gasket's warning signs are only apparent to those who know what to look for. I'd wager that the vast majority of customers who got screwed on this one hadn't a clue what an intake gasket was until after their engine had ground itself to bits.
And hey, if your vehicle is kaput, and it will cost near ACV or more to fix it, does it really matter whether it's a frame or an engine that's the culprit?
And again, at least Toyota is doing something for these post-wty customers, and all other banter aside, that's more than you can say for GM. "
And from 1997 to 2004 Toyota knowingly made sludge monster V6s that they blamed their customers for. It wasn't until the real problem was figured out and a class action law-suit was pending until toyota decided to pay for their mistake. And Toyota still blamed their customers - but hey toyota's so wonderful they'll pay for it anyway. Bottom line; the biggest common denomiator here is the buck doesn't stop with Toyota - they pass it on. It's always someone elses fault. Bad American workers/mechanics, bad American oil and gasoline, improper maintenance, owners not getting oil changes. You name it. Pass the buck. What does it do for Toyota? You can buy an identical Pontiac Vibe for thousands less than a Toyota Matrix. Makes a Toyota sticker on your hood worth $3,000. I have a feeling Toyota is going to keep lying and using marketing money to buy back "somebody elses" faulty supplied parts/frames. Money talks.
And Elkpolk, you sound like one of Toyotas lawyers.
^^^Yep, and don't forget Toyota speced the frames. I have never seen GM frames like that, even on early seventies trucks that had a body rust problem. If that frame broke at the wrong time it could get you killed. A lot different than a GM gasket problem. According to GM, when the issues started appearing, they changed the gasket design (mid-2003). The gasket issue will give you warning, as you will have to add antifreeze when the low coolant warning light lights up (gee, I wonder where my antifreeze is going. Maybe I can have my car looked at). I dare say the only reason people buy imports over domestics is the perceived reliability. Once that perception is gone, Toyota knows nobody will be fool enough to buy their products. I think Americans are finally catching on that when they buy foreign, the money leaves this country never to come back (trade deficit) and that foreign products aren't all that. I just love that American flag on the window of the pic of the broken Toyota truck. GM made a mistake by putting too much stock in trucks and SUV's. They will more than likely rebound from all this.
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Those pics are unbelievable.
That's not a bug, it's feature. The no cost dump truck option.
Originally Posted By: Kernel Potter
... Money talks.
And Elkpolk, you sound like one of Toyotas lawyers.
Note carefully, I did not ever, EVER say Toyota was a paragon of perfection. They aren't. You're implying that I said that and then attacking that position (known as a "Straw Man" attack).
Money does talk, no doubt about that. And I'm sure it's costing Toyota a pretty penny to buy back these vehicles the have no legal obligation whatsoever to do anything about. Hey, maybe they learned a lesson from the sludge mess. If so, that's two lessons GM has thusfar failed to grasp (being responsible for their own mistakes and learning from those mistakes).
Please feel free to show me an instance of GM buying back ANYTHING for ANY reason thirteen years after they made it. Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath...
No, I'm not a Toyota lawyer or employee. Just a customer who's owned several Toyota products and found them to be better than anything I've gotten from the other Japanese makes, domestics, or Europeans. But hey, that's just my personal experience.
And just for the record, it's "EKPolk" only one "L" and that's the second-to-last letter.
... Money talks.
And Elkpolk, you sound like one of Toyotas lawyers.
Note carefully, I did not ever, EVER say Toyota was a paragon of perfection. They aren't. You're implying that I said that and then attacking that position (known as a "Straw Man" attack).
Money does talk, no doubt about that. And I'm sure it's costing Toyota a pretty penny to buy back these vehicles the have no legal obligation whatsoever to do anything about. Hey, maybe they learned a lesson from the sludge mess. If so, that's two lessons GM has thusfar failed to grasp (being responsible for their own mistakes and learning from those mistakes).
Please feel free to show me an instance of GM buying back ANYTHING for ANY reason thirteen years after they made it. Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath...
No, I'm not a Toyota lawyer or employee. Just a customer who's owned several Toyota products and found them to be better than anything I've gotten from the other Japanese makes, domestics, or Europeans. But hey, that's just my personal experience.
And just for the record, it's "EKPolk" only one "L" and that's the second-to-last letter.
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
Maybe Toyota would not be so quick to buy them back if they dominated the pick up market like the big 3?
Toyota is a minor player in the pick up market (compared to Ford,GM,Dodge) and I think that is why they are able to do the buyback.
It is easier to buy back 200K trucks compared to millions of the domestics.
Toyota is a minor player in the pick up market (compared to Ford,GM,Dodge) and I think that is why they are able to do the buyback.
It is easier to buy back 200K trucks compared to millions of the domestics.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
Give me an example of a defect that could easily cause injury if not death. That also cost more than the vehicle is worth to fix.
That really what it is here. Toyota ran the numbers and found that it would cost them more in settlements than it would to go and buy these trucks back. Think of it a 1 million dollar pay out would cover buying back 90 to 100 trucks. You have to figure at least one of those would be an injury or death with as bad as some of those frame pictures looks.
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
Give me an example of a defect that could easily cause injury if not death. That also cost more than the vehicle is worth to fix.
That really what it is here. Toyota ran the numbers and found that it would cost them more in settlements than it would to go and buy these trucks back. Think of it a 1 million dollar pay out would cover buying back 90 to 100 trucks. You have to figure at least one of those would be an injury or death with as bad as some of those frame pictures looks.
Irrespective of the rationale, they're buying back 13 year old defective products. I'm sure that they didn't do it "just to be nice". But I'm sure that the owner of one of these bad Tacos is going to be a lot happier than the owner of a 3.1L Buick Century who gets told to get lost. Which position would you rather find yourself in as a customer?
Originally Posted By: wapacz
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
Give me an example of a defect that could easily cause injury if not death. That also cost more than the vehicle is worth to fix.
That really what it is here. Toyota ran the numbers and found that it would cost them more in settlements than it would to go and buy these trucks back. Think of it a 1 million dollar pay out would cover buying back 90 to 100 trucks. You have to figure at least one of those would be an injury or death with as bad as some of those frame pictures looks.
Wasn't there an issue not too long ago where some GM vehicles had an issue of oil running down onto the exhaust upon hard braking that could cause an engine fire? That seems pretty major to me...
Ahh yes, found an article about it:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/recall-watch-207-542-pontiacs-and-buicks-recalled-due-to-engine/
At least they recalled that issue, and it seems like it would be pretty hard to make that happen, but still an issue never-the-less.
There was also another issue of Fords catching fire because of a faulty cruise control system:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/ford_fires5.html
Granted, those aren't extremely expensive fixes if caught in time.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: 1sttruck
"So here's Toyota offering to buy back thirteen (13) year old vehicles, and they're getting hammered for it. Amazing... Please, someone tell me when it was that GM last offered to buy back thirteen year old vehicles with problems."
Excuse me for not having much sympathy, but oh wait WATCH OUT MAN, DON'T STEP IN THAT BIG PILE OF SUPERIOR JAPANESE VEHICLE QUALITY. Wow, it's all over your shoes, not to worry thouhg, it seems there lots and lots of Koolaid to wash it off.
Well, once again, I'll pass on the Kool-Aid, and just invite you to point me to one teensy weensy example of GM, Ford, or Chrysler buying back a product that proved defective after 13 years...
Give me an example of a defect that could easily cause injury if not death. That also cost more than the vehicle is worth to fix.
That really what it is here. Toyota ran the numbers and found that it would cost them more in settlements than it would to go and buy these trucks back. Think of it a 1 million dollar pay out would cover buying back 90 to 100 trucks. You have to figure at least one of those would be an injury or death with as bad as some of those frame pictures looks.
Wasn't there an issue not too long ago where some GM vehicles had an issue of oil running down onto the exhaust upon hard braking that could cause an engine fire? That seems pretty major to me...
Ahh yes, found an article about it:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/recall-watch-207-542-pontiacs-and-buicks-recalled-due-to-engine/
At least they recalled that issue, and it seems like it would be pretty hard to make that happen, but still an issue never-the-less.
There was also another issue of Fords catching fire because of a faulty cruise control system:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/ford_fires5.html
Granted, those aren't extremely expensive fixes if caught in time.
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Ford made good on the cruise "issue" (it's not much of an "issue", basically a wire that is live all the time shouldn't be. Should be key-on-power with a fuse or fusible link in it) with a recall. Though I don't know if they've actually put out the official "fix" for it yet. Their original solution was to simply disconnect it.
Same switch is used on many other makes of vehicles, it's the implementation that was flawed. It's also a dirt-cheap part with a dirt-cheap solution, quite unlike the entire frame of the vehicle rotting out and FAR less of a safety hazard, given that the issue with the cruise brake pressure switch seems to have only happened to parked, turned-off vehicles, and not ones in motion/running from what I recall.
Honda also had an oil fire issue as well, similar to the GM issue, but due to the oil filter gasket, which was not visible, sticking to the block and then causing a leak when a new filter was installed.
Same switch is used on many other makes of vehicles, it's the implementation that was flawed. It's also a dirt-cheap part with a dirt-cheap solution, quite unlike the entire frame of the vehicle rotting out and FAR less of a safety hazard, given that the issue with the cruise brake pressure switch seems to have only happened to parked, turned-off vehicles, and not ones in motion/running from what I recall.
Honda also had an oil fire issue as well, similar to the GM issue, but due to the oil filter gasket, which was not visible, sticking to the block and then causing a leak when a new filter was installed.
Good point on the fact that it happens when it's parked. I've never heard of a Honda engine fire issue... but I researched it and found it happened in the CRV's and Elements, I guess the gaskets are more prone to sticking to the block for some reason and causing the oil to leak onto the hot manifold, yikes! Glad I don't own one of those!
Another complaint about the Honda issue was that the oil filter was in a bad spot and caused burns if changed properly, etc., which would definitely stink. I do wonder what these engineers were thinking sometimes when they design the location of the oil filter. I can get burned very easily doing an oil change on the '99 Kia Sephia I maintain because of the fact that in order to reach the filter, you need to put your arm directly next to the catalytic converter, there's no real way around it. There's very, very little room to reach up there as well so I occasionally hit my knuckles on the metal clamps on the hoses in the way, and it's very tough to get the oil filter up there, even though it's the smallest filter I've ever seen (Fram PH6607 size).
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