Toyota T-IV = Dexron III ?

[sunfire]

http://www.9thgencorolla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84143

Originally Posted By: Batojiri
Castrol import ATF works fine in our cars, i had it in my car for 30,000 miles and never felt any weird vibrations or heard any noises and actually kept the transmission a little cooler than the stock oil because its slightly thicker and soaks away heat better when using a transmission oil cooler.
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only one ive used it in was the 2006 Toyota Corolla S i have right now and i had it in there for 30,000 miles before i went and got my 60,000 mile transmission system flush. but i loved it when i had it and didnt seem that much different than the original T-IV i had in when i got the car before i had to change the stock oil out at 30,000 miles. the temperature of the transmission oil seemed to be a little bit lower when i put the Castrol in than the stock fluid though which means it helps promote heat dissipation through the transmission pan better than the stock fluid.

 

[Cutehumor]

We'll hear reports in the next few years that toyota transmissions blowing up, people blame it on Toyota. when in fact they used Dex 3 instead of toyota T-IV

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: sunfire

http://www.9thgencorolla.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84143

Originally Posted By: Batojiri
Castrol import ATF works fine in our cars, i had it in my car for 30,000 miles and never felt any weird vibrations or heard any noises and actually kept the transmission a little cooler than the stock oil because its slightly thicker and soaks away heat better when using a transmission oil cooler.
.
.
.
only one ive used it in was the 2006 Toyota Corolla S i have right now and i had it in there for 30,000 miles before i went and got my 60,000 mile transmission system flush. but i loved it when i had it and didnt seem that much different than the original T-IV i had in when i got the car before i had to change the stock oil out at 30,000 miles. the temperature of the transmission oil seemed to be a little bit lower when i put the Castrol in than the stock fluid though which means it helps promote heat dissipation through the transmission pan better than the stock fluid.


I wonder if he actually measured the AT temp in his car or he thought it ought to be lower.

I would nor be interested in using this Castrol ATF as it's cost is similar to the T-IV ($4-5) with no added benefits.
Any synth ATF product that replaces T-IV is worth a try thogh.

However, Amsoil ATF is no go in prius according to this:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-techni...-transaxle.html

 

[Donald]

This is one person's test in one Prius. It certainly does not make a case for not using Amsoil ATF. Who knows how the ATF was changed and how the samples were taken.

I for one will use Amsoil ATF in every vehicle I own where its spec'ed.

If someone has concerns about Amsoil ATF they should be contacting Amsoil tech support and pushing for answers. Then report those answer to BITOG.

I also find the Prius chart hard to digest and would prefer a spreadsheet type of chart. In reality it has to be with multiple vehicles with similar mileage intervals. Should Amsoil ATF at 25K compare to Toyota at 5K?

 

[sunfire]

I've made up my mind... I will put Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF ($4/qt at Pep Boys) which appears to be a synthetic blend into my 05 Corolla 1ZZFE, A245E Aisin transmission. It will take approximately 2 drain fills to get 72% of the T-IV out (8qts total, 3.8qts for drain fill).

I will do 2 short OCIs ~1k miles. Then do a UOA if the Corolla's transmission is still working.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

I love it when people make uneducated statements like "when the transmissions blow up in a few years cause billy bob used the darn DEX 111 coo coo ca choo, that'll show dem dumb city boys". MANY EX toyota T-IV users have logged thousands of trouble free miles with synthetic products that are suitable in DEX III apps. If you want to keep using the toyota stuff cool, but enough with the ignorant statements that are untrue and build on the paranoia complex that ensure toyota and mobil's share holders/execs eat steak and lobster every night.

 

[dorkiedoode]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
We'll hear reports in the next few years that toyota transmissions blowing up, people blame it on Toyota. when in fact they used Dex 3 instead of toyota T-IV

thats exactly the same stuff you hear in honda forums but instead of t-iv its z-1.

 

[scionxa]

FWIW, I just drained the factory fill of T-IV at 48,000 mi in my 2006 Scion xA. I refilled with Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF "Multi Vehicle Formula". Shifts still feel the same. I'll let you know how things are after 10,000 miles.

My decision to try M1 ATF was based in part on discussions here and on the information listed on the M1 Syn ATF PDS here: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSENPVLMOMobil_1_Synthetic_ATF.asp

 

[meep]

I believe T-IV is rebadged Mobil type JWS-3309. Volvo shares some AW trannies with toyota, same AT, same fluid, different label. 3309 is a non-syn fluid per discussions with volvo gurus. NOT the same chemistry as the multi-vehicle ATFs, and is designed to handle the partial-engagement behavior of the torque converter, an operation that was developed much later than the release of Dex III.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: meep
I believe T-IV is rebadged Mobil type JWS-3309. Volvo shares some AW trannies with toyota, same AT, same fluid, different label. 3309 is a non-syn fluid per discussions with volvo gurus. NOT the same chemistry as the multi-vehicle ATFs, and is designed to handle the partial-engagement behavior of the torque converter, an operation that was developed much later than the release of Dex III.


The title of this thread is a bit misleading. It suggests that T-IV same chemistry as Dexron III. I'm sure there are differences, something along the lines of what unDummy said...

Originally Posted By: unDummy
T-IV added HFM smooth shifts, timing and slip control, and longer life additive package to the Dexron III spec.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
I love it when people make uneducated statements like "when the transmissions blow up in a few years cause billy bob used the darn DEX 111 coo coo ca choo, that'll show dem dumb city boys". MANY EX toyota T-IV users have logged thousands of trouble free miles with synthetic products that are suitable in DEX III apps. If you want to keep using the toyota stuff cool, but enough with the ignorant statements that are untrue and build on the paranoia complex that ensure toyota and mobil's share holders/execs eat steak and lobster every night.


I'm sure those who like to experiment have plenty of qualifications than the Toyota Engineers who designed and BUILT the Toyota T-IV transmissions.

 

[meep]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor

I'm sure those who like to experiment have plenty of qualifications than the Toyota Engineers who designed and BUILT the Toyota T-IV transmissions.


Well... it's not that clear. Toyota doesn't build their own ATs. Aisin Warner builds ATs for 'yota and others. AW started as a joint venture from Toyota and Borg-Warner years ago but their trans have shown up in Jeeps, Volvos, others, their T-cases in many a domestic 4x4. Yet each automaker sticks their own label on the ATF bottle. T-IV is rebadged mobile fluid. As I stated above, it is not the same chem as Dex. Undummy is likely right, more addies for longer life, but also to work with the paper material used in their newer clutches and the partial lockup TCs that rub constantly until a speed is met for full lockup.

 

[yummy88]

My experience is NO. I have a Lexus LS 400 that requires Type IV. Former owner put in Dexron III (regular drain and refill changes) and there was a shudder when tranny locks up into overdrive. The shudder feels that running over road dots. I put in 2 quarts of Type IV (drain and refill) and the shudder disappeared.

A lot of similar experiences in the Lexus forums.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Supposedly, this is a new, multi vehicle formula of Mobil 1 ATF. I don't know how it compares to the old one.

 

[delta901]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Supposedly, this is a new, multi vehicle formula of Mobil 1 ATF. I don't know how it compares to the old one.


True! I was looking for T-IV back in April and Mobil 1 ATF came across. However, they CLEARLY STATED that it was not suitable for T-IV replacement. Since Mobil 3309 was very hard to find and cost the same as T-IV. I went with T-IV.

Same thing for Mobil Multi-vehicle ATF. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_Multi-Vehicle_ATF.aspx

 

[hal]

I have done some research on this. JWS-3309/Type T/IV spec ATF is quite possibly VERY similar to Dexron III, with one exception- T/IV has more friction modifiers. T/IV is backwards compatible into transmissions that take Dexron III, however using a Dexron III ATF in a transmission that requires Type T/IV may (keyword may, likely will not) produce undesirable shift operation due to the lack of friction modifiers. This is why Universal ATF's exist and are not B.S., because you likely want those friction modifiers in the T/IV transmission, however the Dexron III transmission does not care. So they put them in the Universal ATF and it works fine in both.

 

[SargeBB]

My Tundra owners manual states T-IV only. Most Toyota dealers sell the stuff in case lots at very competitive prices. Being a cautious old [censored], I use what Toyota says use. I do a pan drain every 15,000 miles...it takes 4 quarts...and there's a drain plug on the pan. It's actually easier than changing the engine oil. Might be excessive, but @ 100,000 miles, the transmission shifts perfectly and the fluid is cherry- colored. We plan to keep the little pickup a quarter-million miles, and I fully expect the excellent A/Warner to easily last that distance with the above maintenance schedule. BTW, I've also installed an in-line Magnefine and do not ever plan to pull the pan.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

I have been using RL D4 now for about 10,000 miles in my camry which specs T-IV without issue. I suspect maybe Redline is using some extra FM in D4?

I have never experienced any shudder or poor shifting besides the "flare" that it has had since it was almost new that toyota states is "normal".

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Look at the row for the Corolla. The columns are the Aisin automatic transmission model numbers. Toyota recommends Dexron III in the A245E AT before and including 2002. However, Toyota goes to recommend Type T–IV in the SAME... I repeat the SAME 2003 Aisin A245E AT. There might be some very minor improvements in the AT from year to year. But I doubt anything significant enough to require an ATF with entirely different characteristics. Which leads me to conclude that T-IV is perhaps a higher grade Dexron III. I am speculating that they did this so they can promote their "life time ATF" to raise the Corolla value's because of less maintenance.


I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I used to buy into the notion that Chrysler's ATF+4 was a more highly friction modified ATF than Dexron or Mercon until I read the SAE paper detailing its development. That paper shows that the friction characteristics of the entire line of Chrysler ATFs (ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, and ATF+4) are all identical and are all essentially the same as the Dexron spec. In fact, in most owners manuals up until ATF+3 Chrysler listed Dexron as an appropriate substitute fluid if the ATF+ or ATF+2 wasn't available. The problem was that Dexron just wouldn't last in Chrysler's electronic 4-speed tranny. Chrysler needed a higher quality fluid that would retain its shift characteristics longer and that was the motive behind ATF+4. I suspect the same is true for Toyota and their switch to T-IV. (This is why most of the "universal" ATFs can list that they are for Dexron, ATF+4, and T-IV applications.)

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
I've made up my mind... I will put Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF ($4/qt at Pep Boys) which appears to be a synthetic blend into my 05 Corolla 1ZZFE, A245E Aisin transmission. It will take approximately 2 drain fills to get 72% of the T-IV out (8qts total, 3.8qts for drain fill).

I will do 2 short OCIs ~1k miles. Then do a UOA if the Corolla's transmission is still working.

Message from hate2work:
Originally Posted By: hate2work

Hi-

Last summer you posted that you were going to use the Pennzoil Multi Vehicle ATF in your 05 Corolla.

Did you do that? Any problems? The thread of last summer has been active again, if you have anything relevant to say please join in

Thanks-


I don't wish to put out more speculation on T-IV, so I will just report what I have done so far. Last year (9/17/08) I did a drain/fill with 4.5 qts of PZ Multi-Vehicle ATF. I was able to get more fluid out because I removed the pan to clean the pan magnets and screen filter.

I ran the ATF through a cold winter where -10 to -15 F was the norm at night. The ATF has about 2k miles on it. 80% of the time is city driving, with a 20 mile round trip to work. I've never payed much attention to how the car shifts so I don't have a baseline with T-IV. But since the Pennzoil I payed more attention and the tranny shifts are smooth. No hard jolts... very faint most passengers wouldn't even notice. Pennzoil has served me well for the past 7 months. I have lost ~1 or 2 MPG but this is probably due winter fuel mix.

I guess I did this because local stealerships charge $8+ a qt for T-IV I seen it as low as $6.50 at others. But the Pennzoil works just as well if not better and there is always an abundant supply at Pepboys at a fix price $4 a qt. And there was nothing to lose from this test because I could have flushed the Pennzoil out of tranny felt bad. I'm going to leave the Pennzoil ATF in the tranny until I see something new I want to try.