Toyota oil filter light leak

[Ronn]

I don’t have a reason to believe that I mean what proof do you have?

No “Proof” just Occam’s Razor.
I can’t imagine a product branded with the Toyota Logo and OEM….not being monitored by Toyota.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This why we still see very good particle count results in used oil and what was also seen in Brand Ranks results as well.

Still don't know if or how much internal leakage was going on in each case. Show the PC data for both a non-leaker and a leaker. You have no data showing that data. As shown, any filter with a big internal leak is going to have lower efficiency. You're are assuming that filters with big leak gaps are performing just as good as ones with no leakage. But you have no proof of that except just a belief driven by some kind of fanboy factor.

 

[Pablo]

No “Proof” just Occam’s Razor.
I can’t imagine a product branded with the Toyota Logo and OEM….not being monitored by Toyota.

I actually doubt they know, or if they do, the news is quite recent.

 

[Ronn]

He has no proof that "Toyota knows all about it", and only believes that because of the basic belief that big leak gaps inside oil filters don't matter. It's more self justification of a flaw.

Yes
Of course…. The “Arm Chair” experts here obviously have more knowledge at their disposal than a premier world car maker.
We’re not talking aftermarket ….this is their OEM branded filter. Use Occam Razor here aka common sense. Toyota engineers are oblivious to something as simple as an oil filter design flaw that threatens proper filtration? Really??? You think the motive is to “cheap out” on their OWN branded parts? Yeah…of course they’re oblivious to how their oil filters are designed

 

[Pablo]

Yes
Of course…. The “Arm Chair” experts here obviously have more knowledge at their disposal than a premier world car maker.
We’re not talking aftermarket ….this is their OEM branded filter. Use Occam Razor here aka common sense. Toyota engineers are oblivious to something as simple as an oil filter design flaw that threatens proper filtration? Really??? You think the motive is to “cheap out” on their OWN branded parts? Yeah…of course they’re oblivious to how their oil filters are designed

The engineers are not aware

No one with any control or power has stopped producing or rather stopped the contractor and all that entails

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes
Of course…. The “Arm Chair” experts here obviously have more knowledge at their disposal than a premier world car maker.
We’re not talking aftermarket ….this is their OEM branded filter. Use Occam Razor here aka common sense. Toyota engineers are oblivious to something as simple as an oil filter design flaw that threatens proper filtration? Really??? You think the motive is to “cheap out” on their OWN branded parts? Yeah…of course they’re oblivious to how their oil filters are designed

You have zero proof of what company knows what ... just another way to support the self justification that leaking oil filters are OK and a "standard thing" that's purposely done by filter designers and manufacturers. Here's an Occam's Razor for you ... internally leaking oil filters reduce their filtering efficiency ... how could they not.

 

[Gravity]

I found this video on a website called YouTube. It's of a million miles Toyota Tundra that has only used OEM filters for it's whole life. They actually tore down the motor after a million miles, and there was virtually no wear. So those Toyota Denso filters must be working pretty well

 

[Glenda W.]

Yes
Of course…. The “Arm Chair” experts here obviously have more knowledge at their disposal than a premier world car maker.
We’re not talking aftermarket ….this is their OEM branded filter. Use Occam Razor here aka common sense. Toyota engineers are oblivious to something as simple as an oil filter design flaw that threatens proper filtration? Really??? You think the motive is to “cheap out” on their OWN branded parts? Yeah…of course they’re oblivious to how their oil filters are designed

Is Ford aware of the Motorcraft filter problems?(torn media and loose glue in engines). We just don’t know. No TSB’s have been released.

 

[Ronn]

... internally leaking oil filters reduce their filtering efficiency ... how could they not.

I’ve never said otherwise….but in the case of this bypass DOES IT MATTER as to overall effectiveness of a filter like Fram Endurance? You continue to fall back on the argument that “filter efficiency” is compromised.
Short answer YES…but that’s NOT WHAT MATTERS. Is this still one of the best at FILTERING my cars oil? YES, because the bypass leak doesn’t “materially impact” what the manufacturer claims it does…for reasons I’ve stated here numerous times.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I found this video on a website called YouTube. It's of a million miles Toyota Tundra that has only used OEM filters for it's whole life. They actually tore down the motor after a million miles, and there was virtually no wear. So those Toyota Denso filters must be working pretty well

No proof of what oil and filters were used during those 117 oil changes - let's see all the receipts or records. Video said nothing about the service history except how many oil changes were done. Said he put 125,000 miles a year on it (means over 8 years of ownership), so that's about 10,500 miles a month. 117 oil changes in 1M miles is an OCI every about 8500 miles, so it must have has an OCI about every 3 weeks.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Is Ford aware of the Motorcraft filter problems?(torn media and loose glue in engines). We just don’t know. No TSB’s have been released.

I highly doubt it, and even if they were contacted about it they might not do anything about it. Seems to be the way in the filter world. Remember when Purolator's were tearing media left and right. Some manager from Purolator made all kinds of excuses for it besides bad manufacturing issues. There's old threads about it, and the response from Purolator. It was pretty eye opening how much they will try to deny any problems with their products.

 

[Ronn]

Is Ford aware of the Motorcraft filter problems?(torn media and loose glue in engines). We just don’t know. No TSB’s have been released.

That’s a QC issue.
In this case, the bypass is designed this way. I don’t view it as a QC issue. I’m sure Toyota knows this filter design in and out.
My take is that they simply don’t see this bypass design as a problem….gap notwithstanding.

 

[Gravity]

No proof of what oil and filters were used during those 117 oil changes - let's see all the receipts or records. Video said nothing about the service history except how many oil changes were done. Said he put 125,000 miles a year on it (means over 8 years of ownership), so that's about 10,500 miles a month. 117 oil changes in 1M miles is an OCI every about 8500 miles, so it must have has an OCI about every 3 weeks.

You can do your research on it. The guy actually put a million miles on 2 separate Toyota Tundras using OEM filters.

 

[Fair enough]

That's using a high efficiency bypass filter in conjunction with a full flow filter. Given enough time it will clean up the oil better than if there wasn't a bypass filter added, but it does the extra cleaning at a slow rate and still doesn't catch all newly created debris. Used oil with that setup is cleaner than without the bypass filter, but it's still got some level of soot because it's not a full-flow bypass filter.

Bypass filters alone. Amsoil had a test bench, switched one to the other. Visible soot with full flow, then the bypass cleaned it. One reason to leave a full flow on is to reduce the cost of the bypass filter getting full earlier. On Amsoil it costs some money. TP oil filters, just use the bypass filter. The slow rate of cleaning is not that slow. You seem to say don’t believe what you see. You seem to say believe the bypass filter is not catching bigger particles because the engine manufactures so many.People spend bucks to get cleaner oil, and companies like Baldwin make filters with both bypass and full flow elements. The only reason to do both is because the bypass element will plug up too fast given it catches all the larger particles the full flow would, plus all the finer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I’ve never said otherwise….but in the case of this bypass DOES IT MATTER as to overall effectiveness of a filter like Fram Endurance? You continue to fall back on the argument that “filter efficiency” is compromised.

The efficiency IS compromised. But if you wan't to try an justify it to make youself feel good about using leaky filters then that's your decision.

Short answer YES…but that’s NOT WHAT MATTERS. Is this still one of the best at FILTERING my cars oil? YES, because the bypass leak doesn’t “materially impact” what the manufacturer claims it does…for reasons I’ve stated here numerous times.

You have no proof that it's "still one of the best at FILTERING". What data and "proof" are you basing that belief on? And especially the other claim that it does "what the manufacturer" claims it does. Like mentioned before, there is absolutely no way that a filter with a decent sized internal leak is going to ISO 4548-12 test to 99% @ 20u ... it's impossible. That's the physical fact of how filtration works.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That’s a QC issue.
In this case, the bypass is designed this way. I don’t view it as a QC issue. I’m sure Toyota knows this filter design in and out.
My take is that they simply don’t see this bypass design as a problem….gap notwithstanding.

Now you're saying the ruffled and non-sealing leaf spring is "designed this way"? Really going into the justification rabbit hole now, lol. We've seen nice flat and smooth leaf springs ... like they should be and need to be to "seal" with a metal-to-metal interface, and then we've seen lately a lot of very ruffled and most likely warped to some degree allowing a big leak gap, and you're now saying this is "by design"? Wow.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Bypass filters alone. Amsoil had a test bench, switched one to the other. Visible soot with full flow, then the bypass cleaned it.

That was without any constant debris or soot generation going on. Plus, the rate of flow in that "demonstration" could have been higher than what it would get in real use. So of course it will eventually clean up a fixed volume of oil if it's recirculated many times through just a super high efficiency filter. Context matters.

One reason to leave a full flow on is to reduce the cost of the bypass filter getting full earlier. On Amsoil it costs some money. TP oil filters, just use the bypass filter. The slow rate of cleaning is not that slow. You seem to say don’t believe what you see. You seem to say believe the bypass filter is not catching bigger particles because the engine manufactures so many.People spend bucks to get cleaner oil, and companies like Baldwin make filters with both bypass and full flow elements. The only reason to do both is because the bypass element will plug up too fast given it catches all the larger particles the full flow would, plus all the finer.

It's not a normal filtering setup to only use a bypass filter. Fact is, if there is only a bypass filter being used an it's only flowing 10% of the oil volume going to the engine, then the other 90% with newly generated debris is going through the engine unfiltered. It's not an ideal setup, and that's also why a full-flow filter is also used with a bypass filter. No company these days will say to only use a bypass filter without also a full flow filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You can do your research on it. The guy actually put a million miles on 2 separate Toyota Tundras using OEM filters.

There are lots of other factor involved in engine longevity. Oil filters are one factor, not the only factor. So to say that this Toyota went a million miles only using Toyota oil filters (which we don't know if that's really the case) isn't a way to say oil filtration doesn't matter. There are many engine oil cleanliness vs engine wear studies that show cleaner oil results in less engine wear. Higher efficiency oil filters will show better UOA ISO 4406 particle counts than inefficient filters. I'm still waiting for the official study that shows that dirtier oil doesn't cause more wear on parts rubbing on each other with dirtier oil between them. You can do your own research on that.

 

[Ronn]

We've seen nice flat and smooth leaf springs ... like they should be and need to be to "seal" with a metal-to-metal interface, and then we've seen lately a lot of very ruffled and most likely warped to some degree allowing a big leak gap, and you're now saying this is "by design"?

The metal to metal leaf spring bypass is prone to leak. Regardless how “smooth” surface may appear…Yes, ruffles exacerbate the issue. Believe it or not, but they may have actually been intentional to prevent movement…acting like a “crush point “ between 2 metal surfaces. Just a possibility.
Could design be improved? Yes…with a gasket.

 

[Gravity]

There are lots of other factor involved in engine longevity. Oil filters are one factor, not the only factor. So to say that this Toyota went a million miles only using Toyota oil filters (which we don't know if that's really the case) isn't a way to say oil filtration doesn't matter. There are many engine oil cleanliness vs engine wear studies that show cleaner oil results in less engine wear. I'm still waiting for the official study that shows that dirtier oil doesn't cause more wear on parts rubbing on each other with dirtier oil between them. You can do your own research on that.

Yeah and Toyota actually bought the truck back to inspect after a million miles was put on it.