Toyota Camry

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9,410
Location
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Rolla07
Still on my original rear drum brakes at 165k miles.
It's interesting that many people see this as a positive thing. To me it means there's something off in the brake balance and you're not getting optimal braking. More rear bias, softer pad compound, something. No disrespect intended.
It's a positive if the alternative is fighting to get the drums off. I suspect heavy rear brake bias wasn't do-able until ABS came along, and even then, not until computational power got cheaper yet still. Given the issues of oversteer it has always been "better" to just let the fronts do all the work. Now that we have all sorts of computers running, heavy rear brake bias isn't a problem, heck i bet the car "knows" when it is under a load and has an idea where thresholds are, and will predictively know when to alter the pressures so as to avoid cycling ABS.
Drums cannot be easily modulated without them locking up, especially in very slippery conditions, hence manufacturers put very little bias on them in passenger cars.
 
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4,226
Location
Central Maryland
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Drums cannot be easily modulated without them locking up, especially in very slippery conditions, hence manufacturers put very little bias on them in passenger cars.
Are you speaking of ABS or people? (Or both?) Is it the self-energizing nature you're talking about? Since there are basically no non-power brake systems any more, it would be easy to dial that back in favor of the ABS sensitivity. My old Dakota has rear ABS on drums, it works fine. Back when I herded RWD V8's through country roads I became quite expert at modulating 4 wheel drum brakes. I would ease up when as few as one started to lock up and hold it right on the edge.
 
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5,447
Location
the canyons
Originally Posted by Char Baby
So, in 2018 my BIL bought his 3rd Camry(4cyl) and loves them Here is a guy that can & has purchased any vehicle he wants(not that he wants everything). He's retired and has made GREAT money in his lifetime. Beautiful wife, home, Club Membership ect. He has owned 3 BMWs, 2 MBs and an AUDI Now he is on his 3rd Camry as I mentioned and he puts on over 200K on them without any/many issues. Notice I say issues because he really has never had problems with them. As-far-as the German cars, he says, "NEVER AGAIN!" Never, never, never, never! He is the type of guy that pays for lawn maintenance, pool maintenance, snow plowing. And I have never seen him(in 40 yrs) do a thing around the house. Loves to Golf. When we talk about vehicle maintenance, he claims that he only has his oil changed on these Camrys. If they need brakes, he'll have them put in. He claims that he knows where every dollar goes for maintenance in his cars and he says, "he doesn't do or have performed, any of the things that I do such as tranny fluid changes of radiator maintenance. fluid maintenance. I'm sure the brakes were bleed by the tech. But, nothing special and nothing expensive. And he can prove it by the very few maintenance records in which he keeps in order for every single vehicle. 200K-250K miles and they still have the OE exhaust systems in the 13-15 yrs he keeps the Camrys then give them to one of his children to abuse. Very, very rarely does he need a repair on his Camrys. On the German cars, it's every other week and a lot of money! Says him about his Camrys, "I get in the car, start it up and drive'em! Just like he does with all of their vehicles. And as long as I've known him, I have never seen his wash a single vehicle and he only brings them through the local car wash. And the Camrys never have any rust on them unless it got scratched down to the metal and it rusted. The RUST will stay there forever too and never seems to get worst. They look ok clean but, never detailed. I said to him," I know, I know, you're not a car guy like me. A car is something to me but to you, it's an appliance". He said to me, "NO, a car isn't an appliance to me, it a wheelbarrow!" He said that the German cars were nice to drive and be seen in and to take to the CLUB for a round of golf with the boys. And all of his buddies drive them as well. But, NO MORE for him. NO MORE! HE says that these Camry's (for him) just run & run & run & run & run.................................................... His bar bill at the CLUB with the boys, is my grocery bill. It's unbelievable!
Ok...
 
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3,899
Location
Canada
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Toyotas are reliable; they are pretty much top of the heap. Regarding the German products, many love 'em; many complain about reliability and associated high cost of ownership. I had an older Beemer. The Germans do not seem to understand electricity, at least in this car. It was cute, though.
My BMW's (e30s) had the most reliable electrical systems of any Euro car I've owned.
 
Messages
9,410
Location
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Drums cannot be easily modulated without them locking up, especially in very slippery conditions, hence manufacturers put very little bias on them in passenger cars.
Are you speaking of ABS or people? (Or both?) Is it the self-energizing nature you're talking about? Since there are basically no non-power brake systems any more, it would be easy to dial that back in favor of the ABS sensitivity. My old Dakota has rear ABS on drums, it works fine. Back when I herded RWD V8's through country roads I became quite expert at modulating 4 wheel drum brakes. I would ease up when as few as one started to lock up and hold it right on the edge.
It's for both. Doesn't matter how the brake system is modulated, the threshold on drum brakes is simply narrower due to their design. Basically, when the shoes are expended by the brake cylinder and are grabbed by the drum, the whole assembly shifts slightly in the direction of the rotation of the drum. This in turn creates a locking effect on the assembly, so it cannot retract as fast when the pressure from the cylinder is released. This effect gets worse as the internal springs get weaker.
 

Char Baby

Thread starter
Messages
13,100
Location
ROCHESTER, NY
Although my BILs problems w/German vehicles hasn't been related to drivetrain or fluid neglect. Although he has had other issues the seemed to cause driveability problems. However it does have me wondering if I often over maintain my vehicles needlessly.
 
Messages
17,073
Location
NH
Originally Posted by Char Baby
Although my BILs problems w/German vehicles hasn't been related to drivetrain or fluid neglect. Although he has had other issues the seemed to cause driveability problems. However it does have me wondering if I often over maintain my vehicles needlessly.
I think most on BITOG do. For all the people obsessing over what fluid to use, it seems a great deal are trading out of vehicles long before actual wearout--there's a new feature to be had, a change in requirements, or accident. Or just simple boredom.
 
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