Toyota AUS style

[goblin]

...
All of this interventionist tech annoys me...

They did annoy me too, till they saved my behind - twice. Once saving me from my self, once by intervening a fraction of a second before me in crappy visibility.

Yet, as an averagely hairy overweight American male, I live with the opinion that I am faster than electricity and brighter than the Sun when it comes to driving.

As long as these things are set to the latest possible intervention (not sure for other brands, Hyundai/Kia have that), they are simply not there till you genuinely need them.

 

[Panda87]

You can’t avoid the Nanny state even with a Landcruiser.
View attachment 317907

I wouldn’t own one in the first place honestly. I don’t have a need for one in my life.

Give me one of these any day.
https://powersports.honda.com/motorcycle/adventure/africa-twin

I can get to a lot more places with one of these than I ever could with an LC.

 

[Panda87]

They did annoy me too, till they saved my behind - twice. Once saving me from my self, once by intervening a fraction of a second before me in crappy visibility.

Yet, as an averagely hairy overweight American male, I live with the opinion that I am faster than electricity and brighter than the Sun when it comes to driving.

As long as these things are set to the latest possible intervention (not sure for other brands, Hyundai/Kia have that), they are simply not there till you genuinely need them.

I’m glad it’s saved you more than once. You sound like like the target customer for these systems.

I’ve had them nearly cause an accident about 5 or so times before I got into the habit of disabling them every time I’ve gotten into the vehicle. The steering wheel “fighting” me when navigating curvy roads and haphazardly applying brakes due to threats that don’t exist on said curvy roads along with random brake checks to the cars behind me was enough to infuriate me.

 

[Hall]

I don't know specifically about these but Toyota has said they don't sell the Hilux here due to the reasons @Astro14 already said - emissions and safety.

I didn't realize those in the OP were diesel. That I can understand, but on the other hand, they sell similar models in European countries and they're pretty strict about emissions. As for the safety aspect, they certainly know how to make them compliant, but maybe they aren't interested in investing in that and will just run with what looks like a 25-year old spec.

I also don't buy into the "those would sell like gang-busters here !" claims. You see that all the time, especially in "enthusiast" groups, and then an automaker tries to sell a model or trim here and it's a flop. Look at how many automakers have "station wagons", errr, "estate" versions of cars outside the US but they flop here.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I didn't realize those in the OP were diesel. That I can understand, but on the other hand, they sell similar models in European countries and they're pretty strict about emissions. As for the safety aspect, they certainly know how to make them compliant, but maybe they aren't interested in investing in that and will just run with what looks like a 25-year old spec.

I also don't buy into the "those would sell like gang-busters here !" claims. You see that all the time, especially in "enthusiast" groups, and then an automaker tries to sell a model or trim here and it's a flop. Look at how many automakers have "station wagons", errr, "estate" versions of cars outside the US but they flop here.

The ones in the OP's post is the old 70 series. I doubt they still sell it in Europe, however if they did they likely use a different engine - they have interchanged gasoline and Diesel Engines by country for years. I don't think any LandCruiser platform was ever sold in the USA with a Diesel?

I think someone in this thread already mentioned there going away in there current form even in Australia?

 

[Hall]

Because western drivers see their vehicles as social media interface centres instead of transportation.

"Social media interface centres" ? No idea what that's supposed to mean.... Do the majority of us want comfortable vehicles over utility ? Yeap. Anyone can go buy a Chevy W/T pick-up as their everyday vehicle but how many do ? Not many.... They end up with a Silverado, heated leather seats, 12" infotainment screen, driving safety features, and so on.

It’s amazing how far you have to dig into manufacturers websites to get technical specifications but all the millennials are happily dancing to the giant screened dashboards on the main page.

Never had an issue finding technical specs. Look at the Silverado I referred to above: https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/silverado/1500. Right across the top of the page - "SPECS".

 

[SC Maintenance]

I also don't buy into the "those would sell like gang-busters here !" claims. You see that all the time, especially in "enthusiast" groups,

I agree, and already agreed in post #15

They wouldn't sell here as much as we would like to think they would. The first picture in the original post is about $61,000 USD. Most would just buy a full size pickup and say it was too expensive and the 2.8L diesel too underpowered.

I have seen this so many times. In the Nissan world everyone raved of how awesome a Cummins Diesel Titan would be, and when they did it absolutely no one bought one. Same with Manual transmission Frontiers - so Nissan phased those out also after no one bought.

I don't want one either. I am still trying to find another Xterra in decent shape however, another awesome vehicle that didn't sell well.

 

[goblin]

...You sound like like the target customer for these systems.

Him who has just eaten will never believe what the famished says

I'm talking emergency braking. No car will be allowed to pull my steering wheel from me.

Once again, I'm talking about Koreans. Their intervention logic is reasonable and can be set up in a granular way.

Mine has intervened twice in 10 years, as described above. Both times - perfectly on point. I can live with that.

And the target customer for these systems is you as much as me, whether you like it or not. As long as you're using public roads, you'll want that 90 years old grandpa coming the other way to be autostoppable, the day his brain no longer listens to him. Same for little Becky texting in her Escalade.

We don't have provisions to prohibit old drivers from driving as they gradually lose competency. I'll have to paraphrase VanDamme: different matter can't occupy the same space at the same time

 

[SC Maintenance]

Him who has just eaten will never believe what the famished says

I'm talking emergency braking. No car will be allowed to pull my steering wheel from me.

Once again, I'm talking about Koreans. Their intervention logic is reasonable and can be set up in a granular way.

Mine has intervened twice in 10 years, as described above. Both times - perfectly on point. I can live with that.

I like my Toyota. It will beep, brake if needed. The lane assist will pull the wheel but literally grandma can overpower it. You can also disable all of it with one steering wheel button - except the emergency braking which is always on.

Its there to keep the morons from hitting me, not the other way around, hence I also like it.

 

[ATex7239]

"Social media interface centres" ? No idea what that's supposed to mean.... Do the majority of us want comfortable vehicles over utility ? Yeap. Anyone can go buy a Chevy W/T pick-up as their everyday vehicle but how many do ? Not many.... They end up with a Silverado, heated leather seats, 12" infotainment screen, driving safety features, and so on.

Never had an issue finding technical specs. Look at the Silverado I referred to above: https://www.chevrolet.com/trucks/silverado/1500. Right across the top of the page - "SPECS".

This is what happens when you get all your information on younger people and technology from fellow out of touch old folks on Facebook and at the local Lodge.

 

[Hall]

I like my Toyota. It will beep, brake if needed. The lane assist will pull the wheel but literally grandma can overpower it. You can also disable all of it with one steering wheel button - except the emergency braking which is always on.

I see those comments all the time about the car "taking over" and call bovine excrement on those ! Well, the only one that's got us is the emergency braking. Once, someone pulled in front of us and it necessitated a quick reaction and it wasn't that I didn't react, but the car reacted quicker than I did ! I probably wouldn't have braked as hard and as quickly right away like it did either but better safe than sorry, I guess. The other times is when parking in our garage where it's a tight fit. A couple times it's applied the brakes thinking I was going to hit our deep-freeze freezer.

Regarding the emergency braking, I believe you can turn that off. It's the icon with a car and "(", ")" symbols around it plus another one on top (can't show that here). It's PCS - Pre-Collision System and can be turned off, but it re-enables every time you turn the car back on, I thought.

 

[goblin]

... it wasn't that I didn't react, but the car reacted quicker than I did ! ...

This ^^^
And not only it can be disabled - it disables itself once you get a little slush and ice on the front bumper, which is exactly what I want it to do.

 

[Panda87]

Him who has just eaten will never believe what the famished says

I'm talking emergency braking. No car will be allowed to pull my steering wheel from me.

Once again, I'm talking about Koreans. Their intervention logic is reasonable and can be set up in a granular way.

Mine has intervened twice in 10 years, as described above. Both times - perfectly on point. I can live with that.

And the target customer for these systems is you as much as me, whether you like it or not. As long as you're using public roads, you'll want that 90 years old grandpa coming the other way to be autostoppable, the day his brain no longer listens to him. Same for little Becky texting in her Escalade.

We don't have provisions to prohibit old drivers from driving as they gradually lose competency. I'll have to paraphrase VanDamme: different matter can't occupy the same space at the same time

I am not the target customer. Perhaps when I’m old, but not now. I’m absolutely a proponent of mandatory regular driving tests to weed out the people that have aged out of safe driving (yes, this will include me one day) and the incapable drug and phone addicts.

I’m someone who takes driving and motorcycling seriously enough to attend training regularly for both to keep my skills sharp. These include training in braking, swerving, skid pads, skid cars, police motor officer training, etc. I am also a certified Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) RiderCoach. I am also able to take advantage of my expeditionary combat experience and training to maintain a continual state of vigilance and “keep my head on a swivel”. I am currently the Chapter Road Captain of my Combat Vets Motorcycle Association (CVMA) chapter because I chose to bear the responsibility of moving my people through traffic, over hundreds of miles and hours at a time, with diligence and care. Again, I take the responsibility of driving and riding on public roads extremely seriously, as we all should.

 

[Panda87]

I see those comments all the time about the car "taking over" and call bovine excrement on those ! Well, the only one that's got us is the emergency braking. Once, someone pulled in front of us and it necessitated a quick reaction and it wasn't that I didn't react, but the car reacted quicker than I did ! I probably wouldn't have braked as hard and as quickly right away like it did either but better safe than sorry, I guess. The other times is when parking in our garage where it's a tight fit. A couple times it's applied the brakes thinking I was going to hit our deep-freeze freezer.

Regarding the emergency braking, I believe you can turn that off. It's the icon with a car and "(", ")" symbols around it plus another one on top (can't show that here). It's PCS - Pre-Collision System and can be turned off, but it re-enables every time you turn the car back on, I thought.

You’ve never driven a 2018 VW Atlas or a 2019 Honda Odyssey Elite or a 2019 Honda Insight Touring. All of those had interventional steering and braking with the Atlas literally FIGHTING me on curvy roads. Easily required 10-20lbs of force on the wheel to guide the vehicle in a center lane position on curves. It felt like driving a vehicle with the hydraulic power steering pump disabled. Was ludicrous.

 

[Hall]

it disables itself once you get a little slush and ice on the front bumper, which is exactly what I want it to do.

This does seem to be a design flaw that most automakers suffer from with this equipment. For the front camera, you can spray the windshield and that works. If the backup camera is dirty, it complains to no end, says such-and-such system is disabled, blah, blah, but I hit the "squirt" button and it's good to go. The front radar, typically behind the front badge, and the sensors in the bumper are a different matter. You have to manually clear them off. I do find it funny in owner groups and with some people, they head straight to the dealer to get this "fixed". In their defense, many of the messages do say "See dealer".

 

[goblin]

You’ve never driven a 2018 VW Atlas or a 2019 Honda Odyssey Elite or a 2019 Honda Insight Touring. All of those had interventional steering and braking with the Atlas literally FIGHTING me on curvy roads. Easily required 10-20lbs of force on the wheel to guide the vehicle in a center lane position on curves. It felt like driving a vehicle with the hydraulic power steering pump disabled. Was ludicrous.

You are the target customer in the sense that you're affected by others having it. You share the road, you can be perfect, the others are not.

As for your abovementioned cars fighting you - fair point. They shouldn't. Sounds like a good idea implemented very poorly.

History has seen worse cases . In the late 80s FIAT proudly introduced the Antiskid, was it. A B-version ABS that was saving on channels. Not four channels - one per wheel like it should be, not three (one per front wheel and one for the rear wheels) like Honda's ALB, but - lo and behold - TWO channels. One per pair of wheels. Smartly integrated: each diagonal pair was linked.

So if front left slips - braking on both front left and rear right wheels is released. If rear right slips - front left is released. A smart way of keeping the car stable.

Enter reality: panic-brake with your left or right side on slippery surface (ex: right side of vehicle on slippery road shoulder), and enjoy your slipping right front wheel unlocking your rear left, and your slipping right rear unlocking your front left ).

 

[Panda87]

You are the target customer in the sense that you're affected by others having it. You share the road, you can be perfect, the others are not.

As for your abovementioned cars fighting you - fair point. They shouldn't. Sounds like a good idea implemented very poorly.

History has seen worse cases . In the late 80s FIAT proudly introduced the Antiskid, was it. A B-version ABS that was saving on channels. Not four channels - one per wheel like it should be, not three (one per front wheel and one for the rear wheels) like Honda's ALB, but - lo and behold - TWO channels. One per pair of wheels. Smartly integrated: each diagonal pair was linked.

So if front left slips - braking on both front left and rear right wheels is released. If rear right slips - front left is released. A smart way of keeping the car stable.

Enter reality: panic-brake with your left or right side on slippery surface (ex: right side of vehicle on slippery road shoulder), and enjoy your slipping right front wheel unlocking your rear left, and your slipping right rear unlocking your front left ).

Oh man, yeah that sounds terrifying!!! Practicing threshold braking without intervention systems would go a long way to improving stopping distances for all of us. Sadly though, most don’t care. I appreciate the automakers trying to stupid-proof the cars and I see the use cases. I suppose I just wish I could disable ALL of those systems and ensure they stay disabled without me having to spend 2-3 minutes each time I fire the vehicle up disabling all of those systems.

 

[Hall]

You’ve never driven a 2018 VW Atlas or a 2019 Honda Odyssey Elite or a 2019 Honda Insight Touring.

I've driven an '18 CR-V Touring and a '22 Accord Touring and didn't experience any issues like those.

 

[Panda87]

I've driven an '18 CR-V Touring and a '22 Accord Touring and didn't experience any issues like those.

The Lane Keep Assist System (LKAS) wasn’t as aggressive as the Atlas, but the braking systems were significantly more aggressive. Even at the “shortest” distance setting, the intervention braking was still actuating far sooner than it needed to. The “car way ahead of me turning right” braking intervention was maddening. As I’m coasting in anticipation of the car slowing and making their turn, the braking system begins actuating, sometimes even after the vehicle has already turned and the system is somehow still tracking it as a threat in need of slowing…and that was the one system it wouldn’t allow me to disable.