Toughest Manufacturer Spec.
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MB 229.51
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Porsche A40
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html
The only area where Porsche A40 beats MB 229.51 slightly is piston deposits. All other categories - MB 229.51 trumps. Same with VW507 - same level of piston deposits but better in other areas.
Porsche A40
http://www.lubrizol.com/EuropeanEngineOils/RelativePerformanceToolIntro.html
The only area where Porsche A40 beats MB 229.51 slightly is piston deposits. All other categories - MB 229.51 trumps. Same with VW507 - same level of piston deposits but better in other areas.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
MB 229.51
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
Forgot about VW's 507, hands down it has to be one of the toughest specs to achieve.
MB 229.51
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
Forgot about VW's 507, hands down it has to be one of the toughest specs to achieve.
I think it's best to qualify that a bit: toughest for deposit control, wear protection, balancing various attributes, etc. For example, HTO-06 is brutal for deposit prevention but easy in other ways (pretty sure the minimum requirement otherwise is just API SM). Other specs might be the other way around.
If I had to say or be shot, I'd pick either Mercedes-Benz 229.51 or Volkswagen 507.00. I don't think BMW LL-01 and GM 4718M are in the same league.
If I had to say or be shot, I'd pick either Mercedes-Benz 229.51 or Volkswagen 507.00. I don't think BMW LL-01 and GM 4718M are in the same league.
LOL!
MB 229.51, VW 507, Porsche C3? These are all low/mid-SAPS specs so you can't just mix a huge dose of additives with PAO/Ester base and call it a day.
I am not informed about those [mostly German] oil specs.
But I wonder if they are just being very specific, or are they really better? Just isolated attributes?
But I wonder if they are just being very specific, or are they really better? Just isolated attributes?
Well they all meet the same applicable ACEA specifications (A3/B4) but it's the ACEA C3/C2 spec that I believe is the difference maker (I do not know the API equivalent).
Sure the Euro OEM's have their brand specific bench tests but the Low-SAPs versions must must perform to the same level as their High SAPS brethern.(MB 229.51 vs 229.50) Now if you go to Lubrizol their interpretation is that the 507 and 229.51 are the specs to beat.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html
I only point out the Euro specs because I think those vehicles experience some fairly tough operating conditions coupled with long OCI's.
Sure the Euro OEM's have their brand specific bench tests but the Low-SAPs versions must must perform to the same level as their High SAPS brethern.(MB 229.51 vs 229.50) Now if you go to Lubrizol their interpretation is that the 507 and 229.51 are the specs to beat.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html
I only point out the Euro specs because I think those vehicles experience some fairly tough operating conditions coupled with long OCI's.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
MB 229.51
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
GAH! Again!
Poor d00df00d is going to go crazy. We should take care in thread like this not to warp his fragile little mind (or to misinform as to his oil spec)
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
MB 229.51
VW 507.00
BMW LL-01 isn't all that tough, IMO. It is very close to ACEA A3. Not weak, but not that stringent nowadays.
GAH! Again!
Poor d00df00d is going to go crazy. We should take care in thread like this not to warp his fragile little mind (or to misinform as to his oil spec)
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Poor d00df00d is going to go crazy. We should take care in thread like this not to warp his fragile little mind (or to misinform as to his oil spec)
It's not that. It's that Quattro Pete and I have a history of posting pretty much the same thing in the same thread at the same time, and it's starting to get a bit creepy....
Scroll up. Our first posts in the thread are very similar.
Poor d00df00d is going to go crazy. We should take care in thread like this not to warp his fragile little mind (or to misinform as to his oil spec)
It's not that. It's that Quattro Pete and I have a history of posting pretty much the same thing in the same thread at the same time, and it's starting to get a bit creepy....
Scroll up. Our first posts in the thread are very similar.
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Perhaps more advanced engines simply need more advanced oils to lubricate them?
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Perhaps more advanced engines simply need more advanced oils to lubricate them?
Side question:
Even though the HTO-06 spec is tough on deposits(if thats what its for?), can it still be lacking in the anti-wear department? In other words, it will protect a turbo from getting coked up, but can protect the main bearings less than an oil without the HTO-06 spec?
Even though the HTO-06 spec is tough on deposits(if thats what its for?), can it still be lacking in the anti-wear department? In other words, it will protect a turbo from getting coked up, but can protect the main bearings less than an oil without the HTO-06 spec?
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Tough oil specs are for [any or all of these]: High torque, high HP, high specific output, high revs, 120 MPH + conditions, turbo'd engines, long drain intervals.
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Tough oil specs are for [any or all of these]: High torque, high HP, high specific output, high revs, 120 MPH + conditions, turbo'd engines, long drain intervals.
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Good luck getting your well engineered engine with tiny sump capacity up to 15K miles on the same weak spec oil.
Tough oil spec is a bandaid for poor engineering in the engine.
Good luck getting your well engineered engine with tiny sump capacity up to 15K miles on the same weak spec oil.
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