Total EV sales in USA in 2023

[Snagglefoot]

Here are the total number of EV sales in the USA in 2023 according to Cox Automotive. They are pure electric vehicles and don’t include hybrids or plug in hybrids. So far it meets the required growth towards 2035. In fact the numbers were achieved two years early than predicted in the curve generated by @supton a few years ago.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We are seeing the beginnings of market consolidation with the standardization of the charging plug.
EVs make sense for some; certainly not everyone. Battery life viability is still an unknown. The cars are expensive in comparison, even though that is changing.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Articles released just today...

"Car rental firm Hertz to sell 20,000 EVs for gas-powered vehicles" - https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rtz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

and

"Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs" - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/

"At the end of Q3 2023, Hertz told investors that significant price cutting during the year had "resulted in lower EV residual values, increasing vehicle depreciation expense and negatively impacting salvage cost." Additionally, its rental EVs were damaged or crashed more often, and the much higher cost of repairs for Tesla vehicles—on average about 20 percent higher than other EVs—has meant that Hertz's Teslas earn it less money per vehicle than its other rentals."

Ed

 

[alarmguy]

As the legacies get into the business those sales will climb higher. Personally I dont think anything spectacular about the numbers though.
There will always be record sales as with any new product that is easy when their used to be no sales.

I think the point being made is the slowdown in growth has already started to SLOW down which is surprising to me. Time will tell where it levels out. According to the story sales 2023 4th quarter sales growth is down over 20% from 4th quarter 2022 and these numbers include taxpayer subsidized sales.

 

[Torrid]

Articles released just today...

"Car rental firm Hertz to sell 20,000 EVs for gas-powered vehicles" - https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rtz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

and

"Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs" - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/

"At the end of Q3 2023, Hertz told investors that significant price cutting during the year had "resulted in lower EV residual values, increasing vehicle depreciation expense and negatively impacting salvage cost." Additionally, its rental EVs were damaged or crashed more often, and the much higher cost of repairs for Tesla vehicles—on average about 20 percent higher than other EVs—has meant that Hertz's Teslas earn it less money per vehicle than its other rentals."

Ed

EVs save the private owner money. They were never going to save a rental car company money. You either prepay for fueling or bring it back at the same level. The biggest cost savings in EVs is per mile driving them. Hertz would have never realized that benefit and rentals get bumped, bruised, and dented constantly. Those Tesla repair panels aren’t cheap. You can’t body work aluminum and plastic in most cases. It’s a replacement.

So in other news Hertz makes a poor business decision. Their poor business decisions bought out a company that I had a very lucrative 11 year career in just to crush it. Pardon me for not seeing Hertz as a reason to discredit all EVs. I’ll just hang out over here virtue signaling at the public charger.

 

[PandaBear]

EVs save the private owner money. They were never going to save a rental car company money. You either prepay for fueling or bring it back at the same level. The biggest cost savings in EVs is per mile driving them. Hertz would have never realized thar benefit and rentals get bumped, bruised, and dented constantly. Those Tesla repair panels aren’t cheap. You can’t body work aluminum and plastic in most cases. It’s a replacement.

So in other news Hertz makes a poor business decision. Their poor business decisions bought out a company that I had a very lucrative 11 year career in just to crush it. Pardon me for not seeing Hertz as a reason to discredit all EVs. I’ll just hang out over here virtue signaling at the public charger.

Someone with no on the line experience as the airport guy being the executive taking a bet and loss is how I see it.

Some fleet are not moving much and is sitting there just waiting most of the time or sit charging at night, and then be used for short distance. They would be a good EV use for fleet. Some are daily commute and then parked, for short distance, so it is also a good EV use.

Airport rental, you have to keep churning them to make money. You don't want it to occupy your lot charging, you don't want to sit there with angry customers because they aren't charged yet. They are not a good use for EV, unless they are battery swap EV and the customers have a way to swap them in stations elsewhere, which today's EV in the US aren't. They probably can have a small fleet of Tesla and be ok, but they probably bought too many to sit there and customers balk at them. Maybe there aren't cars due to shortage and they have no choice, that's unfortunate.

Hertz should be in a business to hedge against all risk, at least lease the EV for a good deal or buy a car they can guarantee to sell well later. They place a bet and they are holding the bag now.

 

[y_p_w]

Someone with no on the line experience as the airport guy being the executive taking a bet and loss is how I see it.

Some fleet are not moving much and is sitting there just waiting most of the time or sit charging at night, and then be used for short distance. They would be a good EV use for fleet. Some are daily commute and then parked, for short distance, so it is also a good EV use.

Airport rental, you have to keep churning them to make money. You don't want it to occupy your lot charging, you don't want to sit there with angry customers because they aren't charged yet. They are not a good use for EV, unless they are battery swap EV and the customers have a way to swap them in stations elsewhere, which today's EV in the US aren't. They probably can have a small fleet of Tesla and be ok, but they probably bought too many to sit there and customers balk at them. Maybe there aren't cars due to shortage and they have no choice, that's unfortunate.

Hertz should be in a business to hedge against all risk, at least lease the EV for a good deal or buy a car they can guarantee to sell well later. They place a bet and they are holding the bag now.

Theoretically they want it returned with at least 70% charge remaining and they will attempt to rent them out at 70%. But obviously that doesn't always happen. What they really need are chargers all over the lot/garage that charge overnight as well as some Level 3 chargers onsite if it's ever going to be workable.

 

[PandaBear]

Theoretically they want it returned with at least 70% charge remaining and they will attempt to rent them out at 70%. But obviously that doesn't always happen. What they really need are chargers all over the lot/garage that charge overnight as well as some Level 3 chargers onsite if it's ever going to be workable.

You see, that's the problem with inexperienced people playing with statistics.

If someone didn't return a full tank of gas the customer or the airport staff can just pump it real quick, no big deal just a matter of cost. If someone couldn't return an EV at 70% charge, say at 5% instead, the next customer would be having problem. If they want to charge at the airport the airport may run out of place to charge, etc. It may be ok if they only have a few cars and gradually ramp up, but not if they place a big bet on it right away.

They really don't understand the rental car business model should be shifting all the risk to everyone else and they just make a cut off each transaction. Lease the car, sell the car when done, rinse and repeat, so no matter which way the depreciation goes they are safe.

 

[Torrid]

Someone with no on the line experience as the airport guy being the executive taking a bet and loss is how I see it.

Some fleet are not moving much and is sitting there just waiting most of the time or sit charging at night, and then be used for short distance. They would be a good EV use for fleet. Some are daily commute and then parked, for short distance, so it is also a good EV use.

Airport rental, you have to keep churning them to make money. You don't want it to occupy your lot charging, you don't want to sit there with angry customers because they aren't charged yet. They are not a good use for EV, unless they are battery swap EV and the customers have a way to swap them in stations elsewhere, which today's EV in the US aren't. They probably can have a small fleet of Tesla and be ok, but they probably bought too many to sit there and customers balk at them. Maybe there aren't cars due to shortage and they have no choice, that's unfortunate.

Hertz should be in a business to hedge against all risk, at least lease the EV for a good deal or buy a car they can guarantee to sell well later. They place a bet and they are holding the bag now.

While I get the charging when sitting, I didn’t see that happen when I was there. That predated this and it was all Model S. I’m just wondering what the electrical system upgrade would be like to charge 30 cars at level 2. You’d need 40 amps per car at 240V.

There’s definitely a lot of things in play here. I think the biggest deterrent is expecting drivers to have to charge on longer trips that have no experience with that and didn’t expect to get an EV that day. We see the complaints about charging constantly from non-EV buyers. The reaction must be tenfold if they’re forced into that moment.

 

[demarpaint]

When I rent an ICE car I have the option to return the car with a full tank or gas, or prepay fuel and return it with whatever gas is remaining in the tank. If I take the first option to return it full, I know the penalty if I don't. Here's the rub with the EV. Let me give Hertz some credit and assume someone who owns an EV and knows all about it returns it needing a charge. That car is out of commission a lot longer than an ICE vehicle, experienced EV renter or not. They can't fill it up in five minutes and re-rent it. I'm sure that is figured into the price for an EV rental, but there clearly was more to it for Hertz.

I see renting an EV as a royal PITA to be honest. When I go away, I go away to enjoy myself, not to calculate where, when, and how long I'm going to charge my EV. I'm positive I'm not alone in thinking that way, Hertz probably didn't do too much market research. Hertz stepped up to the plate, struck out, and cost their shareholders a lot of money. Hopefully they learned from it.

 

[UncleDave]

The only way to can really work for Hertz or any rental is if you have dedicated fast charging on site or immediately within the airports loop for returning customers.

Without that it's a catchup game.

 

[Torrid]

When I rent an ICE car I have the option to return the car with a full tank or gas, or prepay fuel and return it with whatever gas is remaining in the tank. If I take the first option to return it full, I know the penalty if I don't. Here's the rub with the EV. Let me give Hertz some credit and assume someone who owns an EV and knows all about it returns it needing a charge. That car is out of commission a lot longer than an ICE vehicle, experienced EV renter or not. They can't fill it up in five minutes and re-rent it. I'm sure that is figured into the price for an EV rental, but there clearly was more to it for Hertz.

I see renting an EV as a royal PITA to be honest. When I go away, I go away to enjoy myself, not to calculate where, when, and how long I'm going to charge my EV. I'm positive I'm not alone in thinking that way, Hertz probably didn't do too much market research. Hertz stepped up to the plate, struck out, and cost their shareholders a lot of money. Hopefully they learned from it.

You know how pro EV I am and while I would rent one, if I show up not knowing I’m getting one I’m probably not going to be enthusiastic about it. It was bad enough when I showed up thinking I was getting a Corolla and ended up with a H2 Hummer or minivan in an area that I knew it would be in tight parking lots.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The only way to can really work for Hertz or any rental is if you have dedicated fast charging on site or immediately within the airports loop for returning customers.

Without that it's a catchup game.

Yep, and constant fast charging is harder on the battery.
From a business standpoint, the other negative is Tesla did not discount the vehicle price to Hertz, while a volume discount is typical for other car manufacturers.

I never did see Hertz' value proposition... Perhaps as EV use matures?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here are the total number of EV sales in the USA in 2023 according to Cox Automotive. They are pure electric vehicles and don’t include hybrids or plug in hybrids. So far it meets the required growth towards 2035. In fact the numbers were achieved two years early than predicted in the curve generated by @supton a few years ago.


View attachment 197826

By the way. The official goal for the USA is to have 50% of vehicle sales be electric by 2030 but that number includes hybrids and plug in hybrids on top of true EV’s. Hybrids are now making rapid gains after a slow start.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The next check point to confirm that EV’s will make serious inroads toward replacing ICE vehicles is in 4 years when EV sales need to be almost double what they were in 2023. We’re looking for 2 million sales in the USA. Almost certainly they will double in California.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The next check point to confirm that EV’s will make serious inroads toward replacing ICE vehicles is in 4 years when EV sales need to be almost double what they were in 2023. We’re looking for 2 million sales in the USA. Almost certainly they will double in California.

EV sales as a percentage of all sales is likely to rise, perhaps slower.
To reach a wider customer base, prices have to come down, a Corolla Civic if you will. Couple that with more charging options like condos and apartments. Depending on region, the price of electricity and infrastructure will continue to be an issue to be solved.
The idea that electric cars will eliminate ICE vehicles seems pretty ridiculous to me.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The articles I have read say a lot of the Tesla's are high miles - like closing in on 100K. Thats a lot of miles for any rental. I would look at it differently, it cost Hertz some money, for which they got a lot of free publicity and some new customers possibly. Now there attempt has been determined to not be great, so there adjusting there business model.

I wouldn't own or rent a EV. No interest. But I don't think in the end Hertz is out much. I would say it does however reflect poorly on the EV manufacturers - given this was a fairly broad test that proved to be not lucrative for a rental company, and hence might similarly make it a poor choice for a private citizen dependent on their usage.

 

[Jetronic]

Articles released just today...

"Car rental firm Hertz to sell 20,000 EVs for gas-powered vehicles" - https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rtz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

and

"Hertz is selling 20,000 used EVs due to high repair costs" - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/hertz-is-selling-20000-used-evs-due-to-high-repair-costs/

"At the end of Q3 2023, Hertz told investors that significant price cutting during the year had "resulted in lower EV residual values, increasing vehicle depreciation expense and negatively impacting salvage cost." Additionally, its rental EVs were damaged or crashed more often, and the much higher cost of repairs for Tesla vehicles—on average about 20 percent higher than other EVs—has meant that Hertz's Teslas earn it less money per vehicle than its other rentals."

Ed

But Hertz wouldn't be paying for the repair costs after an accident, the driver or the insurance or third party would?

To me it sounds like Hertz doesn't like Tesla for some reason and is trying to discredit them. Why would anyone sell their car and say the reason for selling is the repair costs are too high?

 

[SC Maintenance]

But Hertz wouldn't be paying for the repair costs after an accident, the driver or the insurance or third party would?

To me it sounds like Hertz doesn't like Tesla for some reason and is trying to discredit them. Why would anyone sell their car and say the reason for selling is the repair costs are too high?

Rental companies make lots of money selling insurance to the renters. So you rent the car, bang it up - bring it back and hand in the key.

I believe these companies self insure - I could be wrong - so there likely on the hook for a lot of it?

 

[Jetronic]

Rental companies make lots of money selling insurance to the renters. So you rent the car, bang it up - bring it back and hand in the key.

I believe these companies self insure - I could be wrong - so there likely on the hook for a lot of it?

I would think they self insure if the driver doesn't opt for the extra insurance, would be stupid mathematics otherwise.