torque too high

[mjoekingz28]

Hello, I know the manual calls for over 100ft-lbs for the lug nuts, but that feels like if I keep doing it this high, I will be stripping them one day. I have anti-sieze and just clicked them on 75lb-ft (had been using 90lb-ft, but they grind coming out).

Maybe they mean that as the high side. Because my spare called for 60lbs of air and I thought I gave it that much and the tread separated. Maybe my torquer is off or I just cannot gauge feel properly.

I already had the Toyota's drain plug really REALLY strip from just getting in middle tight like I've done for years (Feels like 20-30lb-ft). I got a Mustang one time and the when I removed the plug it was very gtight (feels like 40-50lb-ft)


I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I dont want to ever stripthe threads. DO you just set your torquer and be done with it, or have you developed your sense of feel?

 

[JHZR2]

Grinding can be from dissimilar metal corrosion rather than overtorque.

Your guesstimate for torque may be too high or low though.

Are you sure your wrench is calibrated?

Realize that the lever arm length determines how hard it feels you are torquing. 75ft-lb on a 3/8 drive, 5-75ftlb, 24" wrench is much harder than 75ftlb on a 50-150, 1/2" drive, long wrench.

 

[Eddie]

+1 the torque wrench is out of cal. You should not antsieze Wheel lugs as it results in too low of torque readings.

 

[The_Eric]

Lug nut torque is for dry un-lubed threads. There should be no issues with the spec toque over the average life of your car

To achieve the same clamping force on anti-seized threads, you'll have to lower the toque quite a but. If the spec is 100lbs, then I'd say around 75lbs will achieve the same clamping force. I've done this for years and never had problems. I'm NOT saying that you will never have problems, but you shouldn't. Always double check the lugs after a drive and then monitor the torque until you get a feel for it.

 

[Steve S]

10% drop in torque for antiseeze

 

[Astro14]

Dry, unlubed threads. Most manuals I have seen warn (not caution, warn...) against putting anything on those threads. The torque spec allows for sufficient clamping pressure over the entire anticipated temperature range of the wheel while driving (it heats and cools depending on tire and brake temp) and it keeps the lugs from loosening up.

You don't say where the galling is on the lugs, but you can replace the nuts themselves or you can replace the studs if it's on the threads. Dirt or contaminants lead to the galling of metals under high pressure.

You don't mention if you've got aluminum wheels. Overtorquing them can lead to cracks.

But undertorqueing leads to loose wheels.

And wheels not falling off is more important than any other consideration. By using anti-sieze, you've entered into uncharted territory on the clamping pressure vs. torque...I would clean those threads, the mounting area of the hubs and wheels and the lug nuts of anything, including the anti-sieze and put them back on dry at the specfied torque.

 

[mechtech2]

Tightening them evenly is the most important thing.
[This assumes you still have a reasonable amount of torque.]

I use a bit of lube, or WD40 on my own cars. Heresy? No. By far I've seen the most problems/damage from lugs that are stuck on for years.
I use a bit less measured torque when using lube.

Lugs on wheels are not concerned with stretch like connecting rods in an engine . They grab by friction alone.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Lugs on wheels are not concerned with stretch like connecting rods in an engine . They grab by friction alone.


Bolts are bolts, whether they are in direct tension, cycli8c tension, or on a shear face like a wheel...the tension should be what it needs to be.

I'd much rather manufacturers used snug plus 0.x turns as their recommendation rather than torque/rust/antisieze etc.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28

Do you just set your torque and be done with it, or have you developed your sense of feel?


My sense of feel for the final torque is both hands on the
ratchet - pulling straight up with all the strength I can muster.

The ratchet is almost 18" long, so I know I'm putting some
serious torque on those lug nuts. I'm probably putting at
least a hundred foot pounds on them.

 

[Shannow]

What can you lift in a similar position ?

55 lb bag of cement ? x 1.5 feet (lever arm) = 83 ftlb

200lb standing on a 6" lever = 100.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28

Do you just set your torque and be done with it, or have you developed your sense of feel?


My sense of feel for the final torque is both hands on the
ratchet - pulling straight up with all the strength I can muster.

The ratchet is almost 18" long, so I know I'm putting some
serious torque on those lug nuts. I'm probably putting at
least a hundred foot pounds on them.

You are likely doing much more than 100ft/lb, lifting like that could easily get you over 200 ft/lb with a bit of a jerk.
Since I change tires alot for autocross I just lean with one arm until its tough to push down the lug wrench, give me 80ish ftlbs

 

[The_Jeff]

OP, bear in mind that break-away torque is not the value you want to return to. Stuff gets sticky when it's together a long time, particularly dissimilar metals.

 

[Chris142]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28

Do you just set your torque and be done with it, or have you developed your sense of feel?


My sense of feel for the final torque is both hands on the
ratchet - pulling straight up with all the strength I can muster.

The ratchet is almost 18" long, so I know I'm putting some
serious torque on those lug nuts. I'm probably putting at
least a hundred foot pounds on them.

You are likely doing much more than 100ft/lb, lifting like that could easily get you over 200 ft/lb with a bit of a jerk.
x2 you areway overtorquing your lugs. 100 ft lbs is not that tight. I can easily tighten a lugnut to 100 ft lbs with an 18 inch bar and I'm just a little guy.

 

[Thermo1223]

Never apply anti-seize too lugs!

You can apply it to the hub face and prevent corrosion with steel/aluminum. They are meant to be torqued dry. Clean the threads but never use anti-seize. If the manual says 100 ft/lbs than that is what you do.

Most Aluminum wheels need to be torqued higher than steel.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Never apply anti-seize too lugs!


Never say never. Try that in the salt belt and you will be stripping the lug nuts. Also, the rust has the opposing effect of anti-seize on the torque, your wrench will click way before the desired clamping force is achieved.


Just like with everything, use some common sense, these geniuses that write the manuals probably never had to work on a 10 year old car beaten by winter and salt.

 

[cryption]

Wait, people use a torque wrench on lugs?

German torque specs ... guten tight!

For serious, never used a torque wrench and never had a problem on the literally thousands upon thousands (worked at a Tire Kingdom) of wheels I've removed and put on.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: cryption
Wait, people use a torque wrench on lugs?

German torque specs ... guten tight!

For serious, never used a torque wrench and never had a problem on the literally thousands upon thousands (worked at a Tire Kingdom) of wheels I've removed and put on.

Wow, isn't that a surprise. The problem is that the person on the side of the road, in a rain storm, couldn't care less about how easy it is for you to zip off a set of lug-nuts with your pneumatic impact gun.

This is also why most people would rather get a digital rectal exam than take their car to a tire shop. It also explains the number of wheel studs and bolts that had to be replaced on my vehicles before I began doing my own tire work. The number since? ZERO.

An impact wrench is the most dangerous tool to have ever be placed in a mechanic's hands. Particularly when they have no idea when to put it down...

 

[OVERKILL]

Exactly!

My Expedition requires 150lb-ft on the lugs.

I had to re-torque them after the first tire rotation because they were ALL LOOSE!!!!

Second rotation, somebody who actually cares did them and they are all to spec.

Some of us actually CHECK.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
Wow, isn't that a surprise. The problem is that the person on the side of the road, in a rain storm, couldn't care less about how easy it is for you to zip off a set of lug-nuts with your pneumatic impact gun.


Amen, brother. I use antiseize on my hub/wheel mating surfaces as well as the lug bolts (and reduce tightening torque an appropriate amount)... and always use a torque wrench! ALWAYS. Never been unable to remove the lug bolts with the tool in the trunk, on the side of the road without issue and have never had to replace a single lug bolt/nut/stud.

I've been to wrenching GTGs and hated doing tire rotations with folks what didn't... it took mallets, 2x4s and crowbars to get their wheels off the hubs and their lug bolt threads were sometimes awfully galled.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Never apply anti-seize too lugs!


Never say never. Try that in the salt belt and you will be stripping the lug nuts. Also, the rust has the opposing effect of anti-seize on the torque, your wrench will click way before the desired clamping force is achieved.


Just like with everything, use some common sense, these geniuses that write the manuals probably never had to work on a 10 year old car beaten by winter and salt.


I live in the salt belt and still would not do it. Dirt sticks to it, dirt grinds into threads, threads get ground to nothing. I've seen it happen but mostly to bolts, not nuts. People tend to drop them on the ground.

Personally I have not hand one instance where I could not break the rust free if any since most are stainless steel. Of course I always make sure the threads are clean, a little brake cleaner and nothing to it!

The problem with salt is most people never wash their cars and park in heated garages. I read that heat actually accelerates the salt's erosion of metal.

The hub face yes, bolts in other spots that aren't removed constantly. I just wish most repair shops used torque dampers on their air guns.