e.g. 5.5 quart sump adding 2 oz of this stuff nets approx. 86ppm moly. (2oz/176oz)(7603ppm) = 86ppm / oz? That right? (If so I don't see big issue with this except where VOA did not produce specific #'s...)quote:
Originally posted by 4 Fun:
quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike:
Geeze , the Mother of all engine oil additives
You can read about the treat rate and all the stuff about this 12oz bottle at torcousa.com
Fe 3
Al 15
Copper 3
Tin 169
Si 20
Moly 7603
Zn - trace
Phos - greater than 9999 -max of instrument reading capability.
Antimony- greater than 9999 - max of instrument reading capability
Viscosity 29.3
I have 1 ounce per quart in my Honda Riding Mower while I waited for these Lab results .
When I see a post like this, is there some content metric that's assumed e.g. on above Moly = 7603ppm / oz or 7603ppm / 12 oz or what?
I'm trying to understand how to use this information. If I don't know how much is in per e.g. oz, ml etc how do you know what treat rate will provide what results? (New at all this; thanks for your help)
Torco MPZ Magnetic Friction Reducer
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My guess would be 7603ppm/12oz or 834 ppm of Moly per oz of additive.
Ppm is a metric of concentration, yes? So 100 ppm of moly is the same whether in 1 oz. or 10 oz. of oil.
To determine change in ppm of the crankcase oil per volume of additive added, you need to weight ppm by volume of both.
So say we're adding an ounce of MPZ to a quart of oil with no moly:
[(7603 ppm * 1 oz) + (0 ppm * 32 oz)] / 33 oz = 230.39
Our resulting 33 oz. of oil now has 230.39 ppm of moly. MPZ has added 230.39 ppm of moly.
To make things more complicated, we can't make a blanket statement that 1 oz. of MPZ adds 230.39 ppm of moly. This is dependent on the original concentration of moly in the oil itself. If the original oil has 100 ppm of moly:
[(7603 ppm * 1 oz) + (100 ppm * 32 oz)] / 33 oz = 327.36
The resulting 33 oz. of oil has 327.36 ppm of moly. MPZ has added 227.36 ppm of moly.
Looks like a strong additive for moly, but I'm very concerned about the phosphorous. The ceiling on the lab measurement keeps us from even approximating a treat rate for phosphorous and antimony.
Molakule, are we on the right track here?
thx,
MR
To determine change in ppm of the crankcase oil per volume of additive added, you need to weight ppm by volume of both.
So say we're adding an ounce of MPZ to a quart of oil with no moly:
[(7603 ppm * 1 oz) + (0 ppm * 32 oz)] / 33 oz = 230.39
Our resulting 33 oz. of oil now has 230.39 ppm of moly. MPZ has added 230.39 ppm of moly.
To make things more complicated, we can't make a blanket statement that 1 oz. of MPZ adds 230.39 ppm of moly. This is dependent on the original concentration of moly in the oil itself. If the original oil has 100 ppm of moly:
[(7603 ppm * 1 oz) + (100 ppm * 32 oz)] / 33 oz = 327.36
The resulting 33 oz. of oil has 327.36 ppm of moly. MPZ has added 227.36 ppm of moly.
Looks like a strong additive for moly, but I'm very concerned about the phosphorous. The ceiling on the lab measurement keeps us from even approximating a treat rate for phosphorous and antimony.
Molakule, are we on the right track here?
thx,
MR
MolaKule
Staff member
For volumes verses ppm you are right on MikeR.
This is a strange mix and MB never did tell us the source of the lab or the treatment ratios. It would make more sense if we had the sulfur and boron readings as well. The S-P adds usually comes as a package, and I suspect the sulfur readings would be 25,000 ppm plus.
It is a strange mix as the zinc is almost non-existent. I suspect the phosphorus is approx. 12,800 ppm. The antimony is a greater concern. You don't need that much antimony for a motor oil additive.
I further suspect this is a gear lube additive package diluted a bit into a carrier oil.
This is a strange mix and MB never did tell us the source of the lab or the treatment ratios. It would make more sense if we had the sulfur and boron readings as well. The S-P adds usually comes as a package, and I suspect the sulfur readings would be 25,000 ppm plus.
It is a strange mix as the zinc is almost non-existent. I suspect the phosphorus is approx. 12,800 ppm. The antimony is a greater concern. You don't need that much antimony for a motor oil additive.
I further suspect this is a gear lube additive package diluted a bit into a carrier oil.
MolaKule
Staff member
To add to this, there should be some zinc as in ZDTC at least to provide a minimal amount of metal deactivation.
If you read the articles on their website, it appears that they try to avoid using Zinc because of the additional friction it creates on the cylinder rings. They claim that MPZ eliminiates this friction. How well it protects compared to Zinc is anyone's guess, but I'm sure we'll see after a few UOAs.
MolaKule
Staff member
Dave,
I think you may have misread my post.
I was not referring to zinc as in ZDDP, which is an Anti-Wear and Anti-Oxidant.
I was referring to ZDTC, or Zinc DiamylDiThioCarbamate, which is a metal deactivator additive.
Not all Phosphorus-Zinc additives have to be ZDDP.
See:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000029
I think you may have misread my post.
I was not referring to zinc as in ZDDP, which is an Anti-Wear and Anti-Oxidant.
I was referring to ZDTC, or Zinc DiamylDiThioCarbamate, which is a metal deactivator additive.
Not all Phosphorus-Zinc additives have to be ZDDP.
See:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=21;t=000029
Sweet. Looking forward to seeing the UOA!quote:
Originally posted by ExDelayed:
Ill find out soon enough. I have a sample coming due probably late September that has 6 oz of this in it (5qts total). Im sure Ill get a few intresting replys when everyone see what I added it to.
mr
What do you guys think of the product? I used it on my last oil change. And now without it, my engine is noticable louder. I was mainly using it as a molybdenum booster.
This stuff really makes your car smells bad....
This stuff really makes your car smells bad....
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