top dog v users
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I have the TopDog V (no magnets) systems on two of our vehicles, an 08 GMC Acadia w/3.6, and a 07 Toy FJ Cruiser w/4.0.
Toyota bypass pics: http://s916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/donjetman/07 Toyota FJ Cruiser Oil Bypass System/
GMC bypass pics: http://s916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/donjetman/08 GMC Acadia Oil Bypass/
I installed the TopDog V (no magnets) system on the Toyota 4.0 almost 1 yr and 17k miles ago. I've been running Amsoil 0-30w Signature oil for 2 yrs(34k miles), an oversized Amsoil Ea015 full flow filter, and an Amsoil EAA air filter element. I change the oil once/yr, which equals around 17k miles. I did a couple of oil analysis before I installed the system to determine how long I can extend the oil change interval. It been almost a yr since the install and oil/filter change, so I'll be taking another sample soon and changing the oil and full flow filter. I'm planning to leave the 1 yr old Amsoil BP90 bypass filter on for at least another yr.
I installed the TopDog V (no magnets) system on the GM 3.6 almost a yr ago too. Again, I was running the Amsoil Signature 0-30w before I installed the TopDog system and determine thru oil analysis that I would change the oil once/yr or about every 14k miles. It's is not due for analysis or oil & filter change for another 6 mths.
So far, so good.
I'll keep yawl posted.
Don
Toyota bypass pics: http://s916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/donjetman/07 Toyota FJ Cruiser Oil Bypass System/
GMC bypass pics: http://s916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/donjetman/08 GMC Acadia Oil Bypass/
I installed the TopDog V (no magnets) system on the Toyota 4.0 almost 1 yr and 17k miles ago. I've been running Amsoil 0-30w Signature oil for 2 yrs(34k miles), an oversized Amsoil Ea015 full flow filter, and an Amsoil EAA air filter element. I change the oil once/yr, which equals around 17k miles. I did a couple of oil analysis before I installed the system to determine how long I can extend the oil change interval. It been almost a yr since the install and oil/filter change, so I'll be taking another sample soon and changing the oil and full flow filter. I'm planning to leave the 1 yr old Amsoil BP90 bypass filter on for at least another yr.
I installed the TopDog V (no magnets) system on the GM 3.6 almost a yr ago too. Again, I was running the Amsoil Signature 0-30w before I installed the TopDog system and determine thru oil analysis that I would change the oil once/yr or about every 14k miles. It's is not due for analysis or oil & filter change for another 6 mths.
So far, so good.
I'll keep yawl posted.
Don
If you want to PROVE to yourself (and us if you are willing to share) thsi is working, do NOT change the oil but get a sample now, before you install the filter. Install and run it about 500 miles and take another sample. Send both to a lab and have particle counts done (particle counts only). You should see a significant decrease in the particle count.
A REGULAR UOA WILL NOT SHOW MUCH DIFFERENCE... because the particles tested in a UOA spectrographically are ONLY <5u. I know this from experience where I sent oil in for a UOA and particle count at the same time. Without the bypass filtration, the maximum particle sizes in the oil will be just slightly smaller than the absolute rating of whatever oil filter you are using (typically 20-25u). Once the bypass is in the system, it will clean the oil to about it's absolute rating... which the Pareto people claim is 2u.
A REGULAR UOA WILL NOT SHOW MUCH DIFFERENCE... because the particles tested in a UOA spectrographically are ONLY <5u. I know this from experience where I sent oil in for a UOA and particle count at the same time. Without the bypass filtration, the maximum particle sizes in the oil will be just slightly smaller than the absolute rating of whatever oil filter you are using (typically 20-25u). Once the bypass is in the system, it will clean the oil to about it's absolute rating... which the Pareto people claim is 2u.
Highline- Don't worry, I'll let you live ( : < ).
I have 3u bypass filtration (Racor ABS) in my truck now and I am using a Pareto filter base (the Top Dog base) because that what the cleanest method of hooking it up and getting good spots to hook up senders, oil sampling tubes and whatnot. I installed mine with about 5K on the oil and took samples before and about 500 miles after the install and will have particle counts done to see.
I have 3u bypass filtration (Racor ABS) in my truck now and I am using a Pareto filter base (the Top Dog base) because that what the cleanest method of hooking it up and getting good spots to hook up senders, oil sampling tubes and whatnot. I installed mine with about 5K on the oil and took samples before and about 500 miles after the install and will have particle counts done to see.
Jim,
Please keep us posted on your particle analysis (before and after numbers). Is your TopDog V the magnetic base version? Which lab are you going to use for your analysis? Have you found (I haven't) a reasonable cost source for the Racor cartridge filters?
When the Pareto guys get some new bases in stock that will fit my 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee, I am planning to install a magnetic Top Dog V base plate with either a Baldwin B50 spin on bypass filter setup or an NTZ AL-09 cartridge filter (if I can find one and the NTZ elements are still available at a reasonable cost).
My Jeep V8 has 95K miles on it and the Mobil 1 5W30 oil in it has about 5K miles on the oil, so my before/after numbers might be interesting to forum members. I've been using 5W30 Mobil 1 oil in the Jeep ever since I changed the new vehicle break-in oil at about 800 total miles.
Please keep us posted on your particle analysis (before and after numbers). Is your TopDog V the magnetic base version? Which lab are you going to use for your analysis? Have you found (I haven't) a reasonable cost source for the Racor cartridge filters?
When the Pareto guys get some new bases in stock that will fit my 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee, I am planning to install a magnetic Top Dog V base plate with either a Baldwin B50 spin on bypass filter setup or an NTZ AL-09 cartridge filter (if I can find one and the NTZ elements are still available at a reasonable cost).
My Jeep V8 has 95K miles on it and the Mobil 1 5W30 oil in it has about 5K miles on the oil, so my before/after numbers might be interesting to forum members. I've been using 5W30 Mobil 1 oil in the Jeep ever since I changed the new vehicle break-in oil at about 800 total miles.
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Mangusta (or may I call you DeTomaso( : < )-
I will post results. Lab is a secret but it will be an optical PC using the very latest equipment.
I haven't done an price shopping on the ABS filters, so let you fingers do the Googling. I would probably pay the price because the ABS filters may be the best on the market because they also remove moisture and some oxidation byproducts. They come in 3, 5 and 10u absolute ratings.
One caution for your project idea- Not all filters will work in parallel operation using the TopDog base. If it's too restrictive, there won't be any flow. Pareto does some tricky things with the TopDog base to promote flow in parallel flow operation but it's very sensitive to filters. It's not likely my Racor will work in parallel flow (too restrictive), but I'll try some time up the road. If you will hook it up as a bypass filter (low pressure return, such as back to pan, oil filler cap, etc, ... no problemo.
Will look forward to seeing your before and after numbers too, so keep us posted!
I will post results. Lab is a secret but it will be an optical PC using the very latest equipment.
I haven't done an price shopping on the ABS filters, so let you fingers do the Googling. I would probably pay the price because the ABS filters may be the best on the market because they also remove moisture and some oxidation byproducts. They come in 3, 5 and 10u absolute ratings.
One caution for your project idea- Not all filters will work in parallel operation using the TopDog base. If it's too restrictive, there won't be any flow. Pareto does some tricky things with the TopDog base to promote flow in parallel flow operation but it's very sensitive to filters. It's not likely my Racor will work in parallel flow (too restrictive), but I'll try some time up the road. If you will hook it up as a bypass filter (low pressure return, such as back to pan, oil filler cap, etc, ... no problemo.
Will look forward to seeing your before and after numbers too, so keep us posted!
Jim,
DeTomaso is my middle name, but we digress.
I have already done a bunch of Googling on Racor/Oilguard filter elements over the last few years and have not been too happy with the results. These filter elements have more than tripled in costs since I purchased and installed an Oilguard EPS-10 setup for a BMW back in 2004. Those price increases seem just a little ahead of the CPI curves for the same period of time...
I was not aware of any Pareto design tricks with pressure differentials, so thanks for that info. I am prepared to use a dipstick tube or oil pan return as needed. I guess I will try my bypass filters of choice (Baldwin or NTZ) and try to return the filtered oil to the Top Dog base plate, but I will use cheapo rubber (and not Aeroquip) lines to start with on my experiment. If the bypass filter housing or element doesn't heat up pretty quickly, that will mean there is not enough differential pressure for the return to work and I will have to re-route the oil return to the no-pressure pan or dipstick tube areas.
I don't like returning filter oil to a valve cover or oil filler cap, as that might lead to PCV issues or oil frothing problems in the head, as some others have reported on this forum.
I was hoping to use the same lab as you so that we would have improved commonality (and reduced variables) in our before/after test results. Oh well. The NTZ depth filter elements (1-2 micron) that I might use should have similar flow restrictions and filtering capabilities as compared to your Racor string-wound filter elements. Let us know if your Racor filter works OK with the Top Dog V base plate in a parallel system hookup; I will also report my results and observations back to the forum. Thanks for your response.
Steve
DeTomaso is my middle name, but we digress.
I have already done a bunch of Googling on Racor/Oilguard filter elements over the last few years and have not been too happy with the results. These filter elements have more than tripled in costs since I purchased and installed an Oilguard EPS-10 setup for a BMW back in 2004. Those price increases seem just a little ahead of the CPI curves for the same period of time...
I was not aware of any Pareto design tricks with pressure differentials, so thanks for that info. I am prepared to use a dipstick tube or oil pan return as needed. I guess I will try my bypass filters of choice (Baldwin or NTZ) and try to return the filtered oil to the Top Dog base plate, but I will use cheapo rubber (and not Aeroquip) lines to start with on my experiment. If the bypass filter housing or element doesn't heat up pretty quickly, that will mean there is not enough differential pressure for the return to work and I will have to re-route the oil return to the no-pressure pan or dipstick tube areas.
I don't like returning filter oil to a valve cover or oil filler cap, as that might lead to PCV issues or oil frothing problems in the head, as some others have reported on this forum.
I was hoping to use the same lab as you so that we would have improved commonality (and reduced variables) in our before/after test results. Oh well. The NTZ depth filter elements (1-2 micron) that I might use should have similar flow restrictions and filtering capabilities as compared to your Racor string-wound filter elements. Let us know if your Racor filter works OK with the Top Dog V base plate in a parallel system hookup; I will also report my results and observations back to the forum. Thanks for your response.
Steve
Steve,
The reason I can't divulge the lab is that this is all in connection to my work and the lab doesn't do stuff for the general public.
The oil cap return method works for my engine because it goes into the timing chain area but I can see that some other locations might not be optimal in certain applications.
I agree... you absolutely should test parallel flow operation! From what I have learned, the more restrictive the the bypass filter, the less chance it will work. You won't know until you try! If it does, you are golden. Pareto reportedly tried a number of filters before settling on the Amsoil ... so you may be engaging in a forlorn (but interesting) hope operation. Good luck.
The reason I can't divulge the lab is that this is all in connection to my work and the lab doesn't do stuff for the general public.
The oil cap return method works for my engine because it goes into the timing chain area but I can see that some other locations might not be optimal in certain applications.
I agree... you absolutely should test parallel flow operation! From what I have learned, the more restrictive the the bypass filter, the less chance it will work. You won't know until you try! If it does, you are golden. Pareto reportedly tried a number of filters before settling on the Amsoil ... so you may be engaging in a forlorn (but interesting) hope operation. Good luck.
Highline,
Are you using the Amsoil EABP90 cartridge filter that comes with the Top Dog V kit or one of the larger Amsoil bypass filter cartridges? Please keep us posted on any particle count or oil analyses that you perform on that Challenger.
Using a bypass filter to really clean/trap smaller particles from your oil is a good idea for the expensive hemi motor that you have in your car.
Are you using the Amsoil EABP90 cartridge filter that comes with the Top Dog V kit or one of the larger Amsoil bypass filter cartridges? Please keep us posted on any particle count or oil analyses that you perform on that Challenger.
Using a bypass filter to really clean/trap smaller particles from your oil is a good idea for the expensive hemi motor that you have in your car.
Are there any other filters that will work with the Top Dog? The Amsoil is a good filter but is overpriced IMO.I can get the Kleenoil for 12 bucks.
Originally Posted By: stew705
Are there any other filters that will work with the Top Dog? The Amsoil is a good filter but is overpriced IMO.I can get the Kleenoil for 12 bucks.
NO, NO, NO!!!! The parallel flow system is very sensitive to filter restriction and that particular Amsoil filter was VERY carefully selected. If the filter is too restrictive, or not restrictive enough, you don't get oil flow, or enough oil flow, or the flow slows as the filter loads up. This is clearly spelled out on the Pareto website and if you don't believe me, please call Pareto and verify. I'd hate to see you think you can second guess this and waste your money. If you want a system with cheaper filters, look for a normal bypass system because they are not sensitive to the filter at all.
Are there any other filters that will work with the Top Dog? The Amsoil is a good filter but is overpriced IMO.I can get the Kleenoil for 12 bucks.
NO, NO, NO!!!! The parallel flow system is very sensitive to filter restriction and that particular Amsoil filter was VERY carefully selected. If the filter is too restrictive, or not restrictive enough, you don't get oil flow, or enough oil flow, or the flow slows as the filter loads up. This is clearly spelled out on the Pareto website and if you don't believe me, please call Pareto and verify. I'd hate to see you think you can second guess this and waste your money. If you want a system with cheaper filters, look for a normal bypass system because they are not sensitive to the filter at all.
Here was my install:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509811#Post2509811
I didn't opt for the magnets, but I've always stuck a couple rare earth magnets to the bottoms of my filters. I did the same on the bypass and the full flow with this setup.
Nothing to report so far other than the oil is extremely clean LOOKING after 7000 miles. For what its worth (and this isn't much) the oil in my car with the bypass filter looks exactly the same as the day it was poured, but the wife's car (which is the exact same make, model, engine, and year) is dark (almost black) after about 5k miles.
The hardest part for me is deciding when to change the oil at this point. I went with a napa plat oil filter, this system, and a quality synthetic in Mobil 1... I'm thinking a sample at 10k to see how things are going, and possibly the first change around 15k... might even push it for 20k.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2509811#Post2509811
I didn't opt for the magnets, but I've always stuck a couple rare earth magnets to the bottoms of my filters. I did the same on the bypass and the full flow with this setup.
Nothing to report so far other than the oil is extremely clean LOOKING after 7000 miles. For what its worth (and this isn't much) the oil in my car with the bypass filter looks exactly the same as the day it was poured, but the wife's car (which is the exact same make, model, engine, and year) is dark (almost black) after about 5k miles.
The hardest part for me is deciding when to change the oil at this point. I went with a napa plat oil filter, this system, and a quality synthetic in Mobil 1... I'm thinking a sample at 10k to see how things are going, and possibly the first change around 15k... might even push it for 20k.
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