Toilet paper oil filter

dnewton3

Staff member
Messages
8,459
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: jacobs
For anyone interested in engine longevity,I recommend a booklet published by the Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc titled "Ingested Dust, Filters, and Diesel Engine Ring Wear" by Gary E. Thomas and Robert M. Culbert. Publication #680536, available from SAE through their website. This was a real eye opener for me when I first read it and has radically changed the way I view all filtration - not just engine oil.
Yes - it is good info. I have to wonder how much has changed in the last 5 decades since the study was done? Not that the concept itself will be altered, but perhaps today's products would make for different results in magnitude? I will note that this does bring to light the often misunderstood, or practically ignored, topic of wear due to ingestion. This is the concept I base my extreme objection of the infamous GM filter study (881825) upon. GM dumped in HUGE MAGNITUDES of dust into the lube system during the ALT tests, grossly larger than typical ingestion rates, and then essentially said "see - we can alter wear with lube filters". OK; sure you can alter wear when you dump in 570k miles of garbage into an engine in just 8 hours .... so what? Q: How does that translate into real world wear data for the typical user? A: It does not. W: Because the OCI and add pack contributions to wear reduction were purposely manipulated to exclude them from effect; something the average Joe does not do. People often point to that GM filter study in an effort to show that finer lube filtration justifies BP filter use. That is so incredibly wrong it's palpably laughable. That study proves nothing but the fact that lab tests do NOT translate into reality at times. Good air filtration is every bit as important, if not more so, to low engine wear as a typical FF lube filter.
 
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Messages
1,648
Location
SANTOS, BR
Arent toillet paper recycled paper, with a bunch of bad stuff like ash on it? I wonder if a good filtration requires an ashless paper, how would a full of ash paper couldnt do a bad job? Looks like cambrian tech for me.
 
Messages
1,545
Location
Paradise of Florida
No, TP can be virgin pulp or recycled pulp. Can also have cotton too. Its been up to the owner to have the common sense not to use recycled paper TP, even though I doubt it would be an issue if paper quality is good. Same can be said about quilted, softened, fragranced, dampened.... TP. And, ash doesn't make paper. No bad stuff in recycled paper. But recycled paper fiber could be finer as pulp has been processed a second or more times. Properly dried/wound wouldn't be much of an issue. But, will stick with virgin pulp simple by habit.
 
Messages
58
Location
Kansas
Originally Posted By: jacobs
Yes you will get reduced wear in an engine using a TP filter. Many over the road trucking companies use them or similar products and have gone over a million miles having NEVER changed the engine oil nor had an engine malfunction due to lack of lubrication. They've even gone so far as to tear an engine down at 1 million miles, measure all clearances, which were still at factory specs, reassemble the engine, using all the old parts, and refilled it with the old used oil that was previously drained out. The last I heard several years ago, they were working on 2 million miles. And BTW, the engine was extremely clean inside. No sludge. The Subaru I just rebuilt at 250,000 miles didn't have any sludge either. It was essentially spotless and you could still see the factory hone marks on the cylinder walls. I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw that.
Gulf Coast oil filters use the large commercial rolls of TP but are otherwise similar to a Frantz or Motor Guard. See http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/
 
Messages
25
Location
Atlanta, GA
I just took my Amsoil bypass filter off of my 2001 Dodge Ram CTD and rigged up the Frantz NOS filter. I have run my Amsoil unit for 5 years on the same oil as when installed. They are awesome but filters are pricey. Going to try out the Frantz and see what oil analysis tells me.
 
Messages
119
Location
Colorado
Originally Posted By: dieselworld
I just took my Amsoil bypass filter off of my 2001 Dodge Ram CTD and rigged up the Frantz NOS filter.
I don't believe the Franz or Motorguard single-roll filters are big enough for a Cummins. See how long it takes to load up and clog then report back.
 
Messages
25
Location
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Uber_Archetype
Originally Posted By: dieselworld
I just took my Amsoil bypass filter off of my 2001 Dodge Ram CTD and rigged up the Frantz NOS filter.
I don't believe the Franz or Motorguard single-roll filters are big enough for a Cummins. See how long it takes to load up and clog then report back.
Exactly why I have it on there. I want to do some testing and UOA against the Amsoil to see how it will go.
 
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15,585
Location
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: dieselworld
Exactly why I have it on there. I want to do some testing and UOA against the Amsoil to see how it will go.
What are you specifically looking for in the UOA?
 
Messages
25
Location
Atlanta, GA
Well this truck does quite a bit of "short" trips. So goal 1 is to see if we can pull more of the moisture out of the oil that does not get evaporated off better. This will help with keeping the TBN higher as the acid formation will be reduced 2) I want to see if this filter is more effective at lowering the iron and copper levels. 3) Want to see how it compares to the Amsoil in particle reduction. The results could be better or worse, so I wont know until I have some time on the unit.
 
Messages
58
Location
Kansas
Originally Posted By: dieselworld
I just took my Amsoil bypass filter off of my 2001 Dodge Ram CTD and rigged up the Frantz NOS filter. I have run my Amsoil unit for 5 years on the same oil as when installed. They are awesome but filters are pricey. Going to try out the Frantz and see what oil analysis tells me.
One thing you might try is to drill out the orifice from 1/8" to 5/32". That'll give you about 50% more flow however you'll probably need to change the roll a little more often.
 

4WD

Messages
14,318
Location
Texas
My father swore by them - ran one for ten years - it was on the car when he died and we sold it. I did the oil changes in later years with paper he bought. Forgot the brand - but it was single ply John Wayne* paper - Franz only approved this tough stuff ... *would not take any s---- off anyone.
 
Messages
647
Location
ohio
Just curious, why drill out the hole for more flow? Isn't the purpose of bypass slow filtration through dense / low micron level filtration media.
 
Messages
58
Location
Kansas
Originally Posted By: xtell
Just curious, why drill out the hole for more flow? Isn't the purpose of bypass slow filtration through dense / low micron level filtration media.
The restriction is to control loss of oil pressure when used on small engines with small oil pumps. When used on larger engines with larger oil pumps, a larger bypass is acceptable for increased flow rate.
 
Messages
20
Location
AR, US
Originally Posted By: old1
I have heard of these many years ago. They are a bypass filter aren't they? I would be afraid the T.P. would fall apart and get into the engine. Also even if it will keep the oil CLEAN, it will still need to be changed to keep the additives good. Unless you change the filter often enough I suppose and add a quart of fresh oil every time maybe???
From what I've read there is a mesh screen that prevents any paper escaping into the engine. As for the TP falling apart, I remember when a teenager back in the 70's this older guy showing me his TP filter on a Volkswagon bug. He absolutely loved it. I've also been told you replace the TP every 3-5k. You may need to add a little oil, but not a quart. Usually you allow it to drain, like overnight before removing. Not much oil there. Personally, I don't care about extended OCI for my DD gas vehicle as much as I'd like to know that the really small particles that are responsible for most of the wear in the engine is being filtered out rather quickly. That makes it worth doing IMHO.
 
Messages
68
Location
E. Mississippi
Showing my age, but I used to have a 1960 Chevy car that had the TP oil filter. Screw off the canister, dump the used one and add new roll then fill it with oil, screw back on. I always wondered how efficient it was, but it was what it was...
 
Messages
3,398
Location
Midwest, Illinois
I'm a fan of bypass filters, piecing one together for my Powerstroke from a Baldwin head and oilchangesystems parts. The B50 filter is only OK in the bypass arena, it's specs are not really "great". Running the filter, and comparing UOA trends, sparked an interest in TP filtering. I just won an older Frantz off that auction site, and will restore it to operating condition, and replace the Baldwin setup. 2 things this thread have revealed are the 2 camps: the "no way I'd do it", and the "hey, love the thing", and that good results can be achieved both ways. For a guy like kschachin, that obviously takes excellent care of his things with meticulous maintenance, results will be gained by diligence and attention. For me, towing a TT on a long trip on vacation, with focus on getting there, I like the idea of keeping the oil cleaner, and being able to pull the roll of TP, drop in a quart of oil, and motor on until the journey is over, where a complete maintenance will get done. Will it guarantee results? Heck no, no guarantees in life. Better than nothing? Yeah the long term results seem to indicate it will be. To each his own.
 
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Messages
551
Location
Kelowna, BC, Canada
I found out about these toilet paper filters after I started researching bypass filters for my Powerstroke and Cummins. I had already purchased and installed an Amsoil dual remote on my Powerstroke and a Puradyn TF-24 on my Cummins before I came across a guy by the name of Ralph Woods. I read every post I could find on Ralph and others who had years of experience running these filters. After the long reads I bought both the Frantz and MotorGuard toilet paper filters to try myself. I've installed a Frantz bypass on my 2009 Ford Powerstroke on the oil, one on the fuel,and a MotorGuard on the transmission. So far I'm pleased with the results and am changing the Frantz oil roll every 3000 miles and the transmission roll every 6000 miles. The fuel filter hasn't been changed out yet but I think I will use 10000-15000 miles as a guide, or until it stops flowing fuel. I'll be installing another MotorGuard on my sister's Cummins in the coming weeks. These units are cheap to purchase and are very effective in cleaning oil. I've done write ups on all these bypass systems on this forum if any ones interested in reading about them. I'm a skeptic of the bypass systems and am running my own experiment to see if they really work as advertised or just snake oil. At this point I'm fairly confident they work, but only time and annual lab report will confirm this. Both my Powerstroke and sisters Cummins are now just getting annual oil reports and no oil changes. Full flow filter changes have been halved to 50000 miles on the Cummins and 25000 miles on the Powerstroke. It's not for every one, but I love them. No oil changes, reduced maintenance, and cleaner for the environment. Here's a couple links to Ralph Woods and Gary North's experience. Ralph Woods: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=317790 Gary North: http://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/98863-Anatomy-of-a-Frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter
 
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