To Stratapour or not too?

[Cyprs]

I have done 3 consecutive OCI's with analysis on my 92 Dodge Cummins diesel with 5.5k kms OCIs.

At the first OCI I put in a new air filter and a Fleetguard LF3806 Strata Pour oil filter, my silicon/dirt was 26 ppm and noted as high by Kramer Cat analysis.

The second OCI with same air filter and same LF3806 my silicon/dirt was 23 ppm, still high and reportable by Kramer.

The third OCI I used the LF3349 standard paper Fleetguard oil filter with still the same air filter, the silicon/dirt improved down to 13 ppm which was acceptable by Kramer Cat.

All driving conditions similar, air filter had about 17k kms on last OCI yet silicon less with the standard paper oil filter.

Any ideas why the standard Fleatguard LF3349 oil filter out performed a $6.00 more LF3806
stratapore oil filter twice?

thanks,
Cyprs

 

[REDDOG]

Cyprs,

I think what you're actually seeing here is the increasing efficiency of your air filter with use. As dirt layers on to the air filters surface it essentially becomes "extra" filter media and can trap more debris than a new filter.

Your first 2 oci's (when the air filter was the newest) you were using Stratapores, and the third oci you ueed a regular Fleetgard (when the air filter had accumulated some miles). I also noticed that since you installed the new air filter, your silicon levels have trended downward with each oci. If you installed another Stratapore for the next oci I wouldn't be surprised if on your silicon levels trended downward even further.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the high silicon has more to do with the new air filter that with what oil filter you are using.

My dad has been a professional mechanic for close to forty years and has stressed to me to not over change air filters. He once attended a meeting with a Donaldson filter rep who told an assembly of mechanics that over changing air filters was acutally worse for engines. That struck a chord with my dad because this guy made his living selling filters. Dad said Donaldson was protecting their reputation by making engines last longer, even if it meant selling fewer filters.

I have a '98 Chevy K1500 with a 4.3L gas engine that is still running on the factory air filter at 148,700+ miles. The Baldwin Filterminder air restriction gauge I installed has yet to show any restriction on this filter, and my silicon levels on uoa's is usually 1-2 ppm over new oil in 6k mi runs.

Air filters should really only be changed when they are 1). restrictive or 2). damaged.

I'm not very familiar with the Cummins-does it come from the factory with a restriction indicator? If so restriction and oil analysis will be your best tools in determining when to change air filters.

As a side note, your air filter should be your primary defense in keeping silicon levels in check. Better to keep the dirt out in the first place rather than have your oil filter dealing with it after it's already in your oil.

Sorry if I got a little long winded!

REDDOG

 

[boxcartommie22]

on my fords i use fleetguard paper filter lf 3681 when you compare specs. that felltguard sent me the only difference is that the stratapore filter filters 100% at 30u and the paper filter filters 97% at 30 u...all the other specs are exactly the same including flow...at the cummins dealer they have a paper filter and stratapore filter opened up the synthetic one looked to me like cotton gauze..

 

[OffOrWFO]

Fleetguard filters are high flow but don't filter very good IMO. Check out the http://www.oilfilterstudy.com/ and you'll see what I'm talking about. Must cummins guys don't believe me when I tell them that? I'm not saying this is the reason for your swing in silicon but I thought I'd point it out.Also keep in mind that some oils have up to 7ppm+ silicon antifoam additives. Also silicon can show up because of recent motor work with RTV usage.

 

[Filter guy]

Considering Cummins owns Fleetguard filter company..one might just assume that Fleetguard filters will work on their engines regardless of other peoples surveys.

Stratapore media has been used by Fleetguard for about 10 years. All it indicates is paper media blended with microglass fibers. The "blend" percentage varies by application..oil, air, fuel filter.


As for the oil analysis...
I'm not sure why your Cat dealer would say 26 or 23 ppm is high.

What labs do is look at the differences in ppm between oil changes. The + or - difference is charted and you'll recieve a normal, abnormal, extreme situation.

The fact that the silicon ppm's are going down from change to change is indicative of the air filter doing it's job.

However, when you change an air filter mid stream of an analysis, the ppm should go up. So expect that to happen. Because the media is more open and as it removes dirt, the pores become more efficient at removing dirt.

What the Donaldson guy said is correct, you can over change air filters. But you also don't want to prolong the change intervals to far, either. That leads to other problems. If you have an air filter restriction pop up guage like the over the road guys use to determine when their air filter needs to be changed, that would help you determine when to actually change the filter. They're made by Engineered Products in Waterloo Iowa. Brand name is Filter Minder. They private label for all the truck OEMS.

For more information on oil analysis contact the companies who do the service in a full lab. The portable units and measurements, while providing a decent result, are not as good as sending off your sample to a full lab.

It sounds to me as though your Cat dealer is looking at an individual sample and not the difference from sample to sample as he should.

[ December 30, 2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Filter guy ]

 

[Cyprs]

Great information, considering these filters are $30.00 Canadian I like the fact they become more effective with age, makes sense now that is explained to me, I will try a stratapore in next while as a test. I do blow out this air filter from inside to outside at each OCI or after dusty conditions , it is a large canister filter, easy to get air hose inside it. thanks for the great posts on this filter concern.

I am told to take my filter to a heavy duty mechanic at a large trucking shop and have my filters blown out professionally, I am told this can greatly increase life of these $30.00 air filters. Considering fact it appears new filters can be less effective as posted above, is it better to have an older filter blown out at a proper truck shop than replace new?

thanks

Cyprs

 

[Cyprs]

I looked at that oil filter study, it seems Fleetguard and Donaldson have much same properties with great flow and less filtration, Baldwin appears to be a good filter. What filter is the recommended for best flow and filtration?

Cyprs

 

[OffOrWFO]

I like the amsoil filters. They seem to kind of stand out as a higher flowing filter that doesn't give up much filtration. They are pricey though. Wix is an OK middle of the road filter that is cheap and easy to get. Keep in mind that in the flow tests were run on the same area of a piece of the filter. The number of square inches varies alot in different filter. Thats the EFA column (effective filter area) Baldwin has the most area followed by amsoil and several others. So baldwin would be a good choice too IMO.

 

[Cyprs]

thanks OffOrWFO, I dont have access to Wix here, I do have access to the baldwin, I will give one a try and see how it does, Baldwin looked pretty good in that study. I too thought Fleetguard was the sure choice for a Cummins, my implement dealership highly recommends Fleedguard for Cummins and I believe Dodge has Fleetguard make their Mopar filters for their Cummins 5.9s.

thanks,
Cyprs

 

[Filter guy]

You blow out your air filter....

When you do this, do you then get somewhere dark and pass a light from the inside to the outside of the filter to see if you've ruptured the media or created any holes? ( shine the light from inside to out..then look on the wall for any light to shine. Staring at the media and looking at "lighter" shades of media means nothing. You're looking for an actual hole which allows light through).

The recommended air pressure to "clean" air filters is max 40psi. Most shop air hose are significantly over that rating.

Blowing out air filter has been a practice for donkeys years. However, there are risks. First a filter company wont warranty any filter that has been "cleaned" by any method.

Second, when you "reverse" the flow of air through the media and remove contaminant that is "lodged" in the media...the contaminant has a tendency to remove what it is attached to. Which basically means ( best case) that microscopic pieces of media get pulled out with the contaminant. There generally is more than just "dirt" lodged in the media. So when you back flow the media with air, remove contaminant, you actually open the pores of the media. Which allows more dirt through. Yes, it extends the life because it takes time to refill the pores of the media to get back to the same restriction level.

You need to remember that media design is flow specific. How the resins cure the paper and create the strength in the media is part of the design.

However, if you must...

Use low air pressure.

Make sure that you blow the air with the pleat, up and down..not across it. Try to get the dirt to blow directly away from the media. Going across the media side to side only blows the contaminant into the opposite pleat, which can lead to ruptures in the media.

Second and most critical...cover the **** air filter housing so that the dirt your blowing doesn't go directly back into the engine. You'd be surprised how many people don't do this.

Always check for holes in the media before you put the filter back in.
----------------------------------------

But air filters are cheap insurance, why clean them???

 

[Gary Allan]

"Back in the day" ...we were warned not to use air to clean a filter ..just drop it or tap it to dislodge surface material. If air was to be used ..it, as filter guy says, was "across" the media (with the pleats).

 

[srivett]

It's a diesel so it will run hot and blow black smoke if the air filter needs changing. If it starts running 5C too hot at all times you're due for a rad washing and a new air filter.

You could weigh a new filter and instead of cleaning the thing just keep track of how many pounds of dirt are in it...

You'd be amazed how much they can safely hold, while driving through Mexico my van kept losing power and at one point we couldn't get over 40 km/hr on flat ground. I was prepared for this and quickly changed the fuel and air filters on the side of the road. That air filter looked like it was being used as a floor mat. It was right full of sand, hehe, must have been from going through Texas or something. 30$ for a filter over it's expected lifetime is probably 0.000001 cents per kilometer so it's not a bad deal.

Steve

 

[Cyprs]

Thanks Steve, Gary and Filter Guy, everyone previously. I will replace this possible damaged filter to be sure rather than relying on my layman inspection, I will go back to "IF it aint broke, dont fix it" meaning I will put the air hose away and give it a couple taps as I do my flat filter in the Altima. Thanks for the great info, learned good lesson here, thanks and Happy New Year.

Cyprs