Have you considered just running the spare? Most spare tires grow old with very low miles. However, if there is a lot of highway driving this wouldn't be ideal but for around town driving (<45-50 mph) it is another alternative.
To plug or not to plug.......
- Thread starter Schmoe
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If you want somebody to plug or patch it, go to a small repair shop that does not sell tires, as I did-- after getting turned down at two tire sellers.
If you want to plug it yourself, I would prefer Safety Seal Tire Repair Kit, but plugs are red. My second choice is Black Jack. Those self-vulcanize over time, rather than just have glue do all of its bonding in minutes. I have thought of ordering up a kit to keep in the car.
Read up. Many like these better than the ones that use glue. However the ones that use glue may be OK too, and they are cheaper and are available in a lot of stores.
If you want to plug it yourself, I would prefer Safety Seal Tire Repair Kit, but plugs are red. My second choice is Black Jack. Those self-vulcanize over time, rather than just have glue do all of its bonding in minutes. I have thought of ordering up a kit to keep in the car.
Read up. Many like these better than the ones that use glue. However the ones that use glue may be OK too, and they are cheaper and are available in a lot of stores.
LOL. I've never kept track of the record for how long the DIY plugs have gone, but some have gone a long way. I've mostly done it for the same reason as the OP. Didn't want buy one or two new tires when others were closer to needing replacement. I still have a DIY plug kit with plugs and T handle rasp and needle tools.
A patch plug is the best repair but the tire will never have the durability it was designed for. A nail point piercing through may just spread the belting weave without damage. Once you hog the hole out with the plug reamer tool you have damaged the belting. To simply patch allows moisture in, contaminating the ply with moisture(belts rust & ice expands)and easily may result in separation. The plug does reseal the plys usually. You have to damage the belts to install a plug. Shoulder/sidewall is a problem but I'm sure there are plenty out there driving around on a DIY plug repair that never should have happened. Its simple economics. $3.00+ ignorant liability. Dealers won't risk liability.
as long as the plug is in the tread good go for it.... but what is your idea of good and what is my idea of good might not be the same thing. I wasn't there personally to witness the plug... but if its as good as you make it seem, good job on the repair
I've done many plugs, had plugs on my own vehicles, serviced cars with plugs in the tires for years, never noticed major air leaks or blowouts throughout the tires lifespan. I have seen one plug leaking air in the past few years..........
I've done many plugs, had plugs on my own vehicles, serviced cars with plugs in the tires for years, never noticed major air leaks or blowouts throughout the tires lifespan. I have seen one plug leaking air in the past few years..........
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I also have a hard time calling a teenage kit a "tire professional" working at Walmart.
I also have a hard time calling a teenage kit a "tire professional" working at Walmart.
If the tire dealer said they won't patch it, that's good enough for me not to plug it myself.
If money is an issue at least get a used tire in similar size/condition and preferably the same brand/model. That's going to be better than a blow out.
If money is an issue at least get a used tire in similar size/condition and preferably the same brand/model. That's going to be better than a blow out.
I have been ripped off by tire dealers refusing to plug giving me the sidewall issue [censored] when it was no where near the sidewall but they knew I was out of town and screwed. they just wanted to sell me a new tire. It was the the last one that chain ever sold me. I have had excellent results with plugged tires from local shops, none tire stores. Tire retail shops insist on patches to get higher revenue IMO when a plug will work as well and much easier to do. They claim liability issues etc, even have to sign a waiver if you want the pressure higher than recommended on the door even if it is less than the sidewall max listed on the tire. All about CYA
Maybe it's time I waded into the conversation. Let's start with what the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) says about tire repairs:
https://www.rma.org/publications/tire_service_professionals/index.cfm?PublicationID=11303
This is a wall chart that shows the proper repair procedure for tires as determined by a concensus of representatives from tire manufacturers, tire dealers, and tire repair materials manufacturers. It represents the best knowledge available.
3 things:
1) While the sidewall is considered to be non-repairable, so is the outermost rib.
2) They specifically label "plug only" repairs as not recommended.
3) They specifically label "patch only" repairs as not recommended.
Having sat on this committee and listened (and contributed) to the discussions, I can tell you the rationale behind each point:
Plugs: There is a certain failure rate for plugs (defined by leaking) and it is orders of magnitudes higher than the leakage rate of new tires (the standard by which all repair materials and procedures are judged). My own experience bares this out as new tires have leakage rates measured in parts per million, while plugs are on the order of 10%.
Plugs also do not provide support for the damaged area. A patch "bridges" the structure of a tire, which reduces the stress concentration caused by the hole.
Sidewall: The motion a sidewall goes through is pretty complex and patch repairs do not adhere well to the sidewall. Plus there is the stress concentration issue.
Outermost rib: This is the location of the belt edges - the most highly stressed area in the tire. Tire engineers do not want anything to disturb this area - that pesky stress concentration thing - since this is the area where tread separations start - that pesky Firestone problem!
Patch only: Patches do not fill the injured area. Contaminants can enter the area and since there are steel belts, cause rust. Very bad!
The key to understanding this is the failure rate. While I wasn't there, I was told there was a long, acromonious discussion about what should be the standard about repiars - and it boiled down to: All repair materials and repair procedures should result in a failure rate that is comparable to a new tire's failure rate. In other words, a repaired tire should perform as good as a new one. While is is truly unachieveable, the failure rates should be in the same vicinity and not orders of magnitudes different.
Just for the record: Properly repaired tires fail about 2 to 3 times more often that unrepaired tires - and that was judged to be an acceptably close.
I am sure there will be folks who will say "I've never had a plug leak", or "I've run thousands of miles with no problems - and I am sure they aren't fabricating their experience.
The RMA recommendations are based on samples sizes that are way beyond what a single individual can experience - and they are indeed based on real world experiences. The repair manufacturers are present for many of the discussions (They ARE members of the RMA), so it isn't like it is all the tire mnaufacturers dictating what to do.
On a personal note, I have used plugs and I've had a few leak. But I understand the risk involved and I am willing to accept that. If a person feels - like I do - that they are willing to accept this risk, great!
The purpose of this post is to inform everyone about what the risk levels are and allow everyone to make an informed decision.
https://www.rma.org/publications/tire_service_professionals/index.cfm?PublicationID=11303
This is a wall chart that shows the proper repair procedure for tires as determined by a concensus of representatives from tire manufacturers, tire dealers, and tire repair materials manufacturers. It represents the best knowledge available.
3 things:
1) While the sidewall is considered to be non-repairable, so is the outermost rib.
2) They specifically label "plug only" repairs as not recommended.
3) They specifically label "patch only" repairs as not recommended.
Having sat on this committee and listened (and contributed) to the discussions, I can tell you the rationale behind each point:
Plugs: There is a certain failure rate for plugs (defined by leaking) and it is orders of magnitudes higher than the leakage rate of new tires (the standard by which all repair materials and procedures are judged). My own experience bares this out as new tires have leakage rates measured in parts per million, while plugs are on the order of 10%.
Plugs also do not provide support for the damaged area. A patch "bridges" the structure of a tire, which reduces the stress concentration caused by the hole.
Sidewall: The motion a sidewall goes through is pretty complex and patch repairs do not adhere well to the sidewall. Plus there is the stress concentration issue.
Outermost rib: This is the location of the belt edges - the most highly stressed area in the tire. Tire engineers do not want anything to disturb this area - that pesky stress concentration thing - since this is the area where tread separations start - that pesky Firestone problem!
Patch only: Patches do not fill the injured area. Contaminants can enter the area and since there are steel belts, cause rust. Very bad!
The key to understanding this is the failure rate. While I wasn't there, I was told there was a long, acromonious discussion about what should be the standard about repiars - and it boiled down to: All repair materials and repair procedures should result in a failure rate that is comparable to a new tire's failure rate. In other words, a repaired tire should perform as good as a new one. While is is truly unachieveable, the failure rates should be in the same vicinity and not orders of magnitudes different.
Just for the record: Properly repaired tires fail about 2 to 3 times more often that unrepaired tires - and that was judged to be an acceptably close.
I am sure there will be folks who will say "I've never had a plug leak", or "I've run thousands of miles with no problems - and I am sure they aren't fabricating their experience.
The RMA recommendations are based on samples sizes that are way beyond what a single individual can experience - and they are indeed based on real world experiences. The repair manufacturers are present for many of the discussions (They ARE members of the RMA), so it isn't like it is all the tire mnaufacturers dictating what to do.
On a personal note, I have used plugs and I've had a few leak. But I understand the risk involved and I am willing to accept that. If a person feels - like I do - that they are willing to accept this risk, great!
The purpose of this post is to inform everyone about what the risk levels are and allow everyone to make an informed decision.
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Excellent post. Tires seem so simple: they're just black and round. But everytime I read something from a tire engineer, or at least someone who REALLY knows what they're talking about, it simply tells me that I don't know what I don't know, and even moreso.
In other words: tires are really complex! A really good tire that rolls smooth down the road and holds up for 60, 70, 80 thousand miles is an accomplishment that's not acknowledged enough.
In other words: tires are really complex! A really good tire that rolls smooth down the road and holds up for 60, 70, 80 thousand miles is an accomplishment that's not acknowledged enough.
I don't have a problem with tire dealers abiding by their expertise and wanting to CYA but if I am willing to sign a release and say plug it then they should be able to do the work. I will take the risk ( they did not say it was a safety hazard) just more leaks or flats so let me sign a release. Of course, due to this attitude and costs I have purchased most of my tires in the past 10 years on line, just much easier to do business than with the brick and mortar where the costs to mount and balance are not disclosed and customers are ripped off more than not
Spector,
I am not an attorney - and perhaps some attorney who reads the post will help me with this - but the basic principle is that a person can not sign away his rights and having a signed release does not remove responsibility from the person doing the work.
Put another way: If a tire dealer does the work, he can be held liable for anything that happens because he knows more - or ought to know more - than the person signing the release.
So doing something contrary to the industry standard represents a risk - even if there is a signed release.
I am not an attorney - and perhaps some attorney who reads the post will help me with this - but the basic principle is that a person can not sign away his rights and having a signed release does not remove responsibility from the person doing the work.
Put another way: If a tire dealer does the work, he can be held liable for anything that happens because he knows more - or ought to know more - than the person signing the release.
So doing something contrary to the industry standard represents a risk - even if there is a signed release.
Man, I've plugged my tires at least a dozen times. I'm one of those unlucky fools that get a flat tire at least once a year. If I had to buy a tire every time I had a flat, forget about it. I never had a plug leak air or go bad and I do them myself. I thought I dispel some fear mongering going on.
As a "tire professional" working in a chain store, I can tell you I have had many tires come in complaining of a leak, and it was leaking from a plug that someone else had installed. We usually yank them out and patch them properly if we can, but more often then not, the person that won't spring for a proper patch in the first place job also is trying to have us fix a BALD tire as a last ditch effort.
-Sam
-Sam
There is a company around here that just opened up, I think it is a national chain. It is called "Mr. Tire".
They patched two of my girlfriends tires, both had nails in them. They were nearly new tires, we did not purchase the tires there.
The guy said that the patch was free, but they get 6 dollars or something to re-mount and balance the tire.
I was ecstatic to pay the 12 dollars!
I will look there first for tires next time.
They patched two of my girlfriends tires, both had nails in them. They were nearly new tires, we did not purchase the tires there.
The guy said that the patch was free, but they get 6 dollars or something to re-mount and balance the tire.
I was ecstatic to pay the 12 dollars!
I will look there first for tires next time.
I prefer the plug/patch combo units for repair. Costco uses them as default, and they're the only ones a few motorcycle shops use.
I had a fatal chunk taken out of one of my tires years ago, and let's just say I walked out with a new Michelin Pilot for $40...
I had a fatal chunk taken out of one of my tires years ago, and let's just say I walked out with a new Michelin Pilot for $40...
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I HAVE INSTALLED MANY DIY TIRE PLUGS OVER THE YEARS IN MY TIRES. SOME TIRES HAD MORE THAN ONE PLUG IN THEM. ALL OF THOSE TIRES HAVE BEEN WORN BALD BEFORE REPLACING AND HAVE NEVER LEAKED WITH THE PLUGS! Unless you are taking a long cross country trip, race to work at high speeds, or haul/tow heavy items, I wouldn't worry about it!
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