Title cost and Insurance, the biggest scam

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How the heck do they justify charging $1200 for a refinance or purchase? It is not like you are buying a lot of land, when a boundary and the house has been around for decades. There is so much kick back and referral fees between them and the real estate brokers, yet I've never seen any title company out there market to consumers / home owners / buyers directly.

IMO the cost to "insure" should be only 0.01% of the home price as these days it is almost impossible to sell a home without being the real title holder.
 
$1200.00 is spit in the ocean in this context.
It could also probably be negotiated down or away, or shifted to the other party in the transaction, if they really want to complete it.
Walking away is always a strong negotiating tactic, especially if everyone else wants to complete the deal.
 
My wife is a notary and sees this all the time. You have the option of using whatever title company you want to in California and yes, $1200 is a rip off. Most of the time, the mortgage broker gets a kickback from the title company, the title company gets a kick back from the title insurance company, etc. So the broker or home seller steers you towards the title company of their choice for financial gain. Unless you know what a good going rate is, and what fees are a rip-off and what fees are valid, you will be at a disadvantage. Unfortunately, most people only do a few mortgages in their lifetime so they do not know. Thank God my wife does these on a daily basis or I would be lost and broke!
 
I have known two folks who have tapped title insurance. It seemed worth it for them:

$10k in legal fees to correct some really messed up items with a condo sale from years past back to an out business builder.

A $40k sewer line install since it was shared by neighbor(not shown on deed or research) and backed up into cousin's home. The neighbor could not pay and it was a line through very expensive landscaping, driveway, and digging etc.
 
They have you where they want you. I have a reputable and surprisingly well-organized mortgage lender, so at least they don't mess up crediting my payments.

It used to be every couple of years I could call them and they would reset my rate about half-way from my rate to the current rate. I didn't abuse it; I would only ask if there was a good sized gap. It was win-win. They would get to keep a performing mortgage at a somewhat higher than average rate, I could renegotite without a hassle or expense.

The last time I tried it, they told me the had a program with some kind of fancy name for it. They explained that I was eligible for this fantastic program if I had 75% percent equity. I was pretty sure they got the fraction inverted, so I had him repeat it twice. Its true, if you have say, a $250K mortgage, they will do the no-cost renegotiation but only if your house is worth three times of what remains on the loan.

So I'm between a rock and a hard place; My equity is so high that the renegotiation fees would swallow almost all the benefit of a refi even though I'm substantially above market now, but I don't have quite the stupendous overcollateralization that would qualify me for the E-Z refi.

I keep hearing a lot of complaints about "Government motors" But at least the government charged a high interest rate and took significant equity. The banks just had a fire-hose of money turned on them, no strings attached, and they continue to receive stupendous government support and subsidy in the form of these Quantitative Easings that don't seem to help anybody but the banks.

Don't get me started on property insurance companies that never seem to pay any claims.
 
I do get a good rate, 2.5% with no fee at all and about $900 back after closing cost based on this $1230 title cost and insurance. I want to see if it is possible to negotiate it down (ideally) and where to get a competitive quote on my own (so the title co / agent can save money and in return save me money).

What is a reasonable quote?
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I do get a good rate, 2.5%


Who is this with? and the 2.5% rate...how long is the term?
 
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
How the heck do they justify charging $1200 for a refinance or purchase? It is not like you are buying a lot of land, when a boundary and the house has been around for decades. There is so much kick back and referral fees between them and the real estate brokers, yet I've never seen any title company out there market to consumers / home owners / buyers directly.

IMO the cost to "insure" should be only 0.01% of the home price as these days it is almost impossible to sell a home without being the real title holder.


Amen, here is michigan they made it into law, I can't even negotiate it down during refi, bunch of soggy bag of soiled diapers.
it is a scam!
 
Don't buy without it, I know of a few times where it has come in handy.

One competitor of mine bought a couple of lots, only to be nailed with an adverse possession lawsuit two weeks after closing...

Buy enough property and eventually it will pay off.

$1,200 is a rip off BTW.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
I do get a good rate, 2.5%


Who is this with? and the 2.5% rate...how long is the term?


Provident, with impound / escrow (you pay every month into the account so you will not skip insurance or property tax), for 10 year fixed. I do however have a very high equity (more than 60%), and an annual pretax income that is about 2/3 of the loan amount, and a credit score of 810/792 between my wife and I. So I'm a rare case, so rare that Quicken Loan refuse to believe the rate to be so low and tell me to "run for it", but come back if it falls through.

My real estate agent friend told me they are fixed fee from most title companies in the states (not negotiable), but those who you have a good relationship with may reduce the courier or document fee instead. She told me kickback and referral fee is illegal and no title co will do that to lose the license, but some are owned by the same people / family members. Since the one from my broker already did that (and picked one that is famous for the lowest fee for refi already), there is nothing for me to shop around for anyways.
 
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Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
The banks just had a fire-hose of money turned on them, no strings attached, and they continue to receive stupendous government support and subsidy in the form of these Quantitative Easings that don't seem to help anybody but the banks.

Don't get me started on property insurance companies that never seem to pay any claims.


My understanding is the banks are hiding their bad loans with the government money, so they are not foreclosing bad loans or selling them off at below market price (and reduce market price and make their good loans bad as a side effect). There were a few homes my parents bid on but the banks decided to withdraw from the market instead of accepting a low ball offer.
 
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