Tire Vibration When Tire Warms Up

[dwchapmanjr]

I've been fighting a vehicle vibration I think I have narrowed down to a set of front tires(possibly rears too). It seems to happen when they warm up. This seems to be the opposite issue everyone has when they flat spot.

Long version below.

1/31/2020 - Got a new set of 4 - Bridgestone Dueler HL. Seemed to drive ok until Mid March when COVID happened and I stopped driving frequently. Got an alignment and they found a front strut leaking and replaced. I noticed more road noise than the OE Continentals I had but I didn't notice the vibration issues.

July I started driving a bit more and noticed this terrible vibration. I inspected the rear shocks and found they were leaking. I replaced and it helped a little. Then found the remaining old front strut leaking and replaced. I was expecting this to be the nail in the coffin but it was not.

This week we got a slight cold front in Texas and the issue started to go away except when I drove for 45-60 minutes. I started to correlate it with tire psi and temp. Cold pressure on them is 35psi and I noticed the issue as each tire got up to 38 psi. One day I pulled over and deflated one front tire that made it to 38 first down to 36 and it helped. Then as the other front tire made it to 38 I deflated it too and it helped for about 10 minutes.

My morning drives seem to be better but it seems to be a factor of the lower ambient temp (55-60F) versus old ambient of 80-90F in the morning.

Anyone seen anything like this?

I'm thinking I am either working out some flatspotting from not driving much from March until July or some of these tires have an issue as the front tire temps get up to the 120-130F and 38psi.

I had the dealer road force balance and rotate and when they moved the tires up front I developed a pull which was later diagnosed as a conic tire and replaced. Wondering if the other tire in the pair has some defect too. At this point though I've gone through two road force balances at two different places and two alignment checks as well as having two shops check suspension and other suspects. Tires only have 3k miles on them.

Ideas/suggestions? I plan on going back to the dealer when I have more information on how to reproduce the issue and anything I can think of since it happens less in the cold and takes longer to reproduce now.

I've also started doing the poor man's picoscope with a $10 vibration app on my phone and calculating manually but the numbers are all over the place, presumably because my phone is not mounted to the right part of the vehicle due to limitations of using a phone.

 

[MParr]

Vibration problems can be hard to nail down. Jack up each corner and spin the tires. Look for obvious roundness issues with the entire wheel/tire assembly. Chalk the bad assemblies. It is common to get a bad set of tires. Usually they are made in the same production run. Road force balancing isn’t the be all and end all. You can’t balance an egg. I went through exactly what you are describing with a set of Altimax RT43s. Three out of the four were bad. Those three had numbers in very close sequence.

 

[CapriRacer]

First, tire vibrations tend to fall in the 50 mph to 70 mph range. Outside that range, the shocks tend to damp out the vibration. So is it possible that you are only sensing the vibration when you get on the open road and by the time you get there, the tires are up to temperature and you are incorrectly linking the 2?

Swapping tires front to rear should offer some additional insight into where the problem lies. Chances are that one end of the vehicle is worst than the others - even if all tires are flatspotted.. In other words, swapping tires ought to change something.

I am puzzled by the fact that you RoadForced the tires. That should have revealed any flatspots. What were the values?

 

[dwchapmanjr]

First, tire vibrations tend to fall in the 50 mph to 70 mph range. Outside that range, the shocks tend to damp out the vibration. So is it possible that you are only sensing the vibration when you get on the open road and by the time you get there, the tires are up to temperature and you are incorrectly linking the 2?

I really thought this was a shock issue, still kind of feels like it but after replacing 4 leaky ones, still no dice. Dealer somehow checked them for function and whether they're stuck and said they are performing as expected. Its magnetic ride so they aren't cheap either but I can monitor the shock command and nothing crazy going on with the ride height sensor or the shock command. I've accounted for open road driving, I mix it up. Sometimes I do back roads, 40mph for 20 minutes and then hit the highway, other-times its straight on the highway and then finish off on open roads.

The vibration is always there to start but at the colder temp its acceptable. It gets worse with either tire temp or pressure as it seems. My next step is going to be to inflate the tires to 38psi for one morning drive and see if that causes it versus waiting for them to warm up.

Swapping tires front to rear should offer some additional insight into where the problem lies. Chances are that one end of the vehicle is worst than the others - even if all tires are flatspotted.. In other words, swapping tires ought to change something.

It didn't seem to other than rotating the rear conic tire to the front and getting that replaced. I fear my mileage is so low that I may just have to drive it a bit for tire marks/wear patterns to show up (which I'm trying to do by driving 40-50 miles a day).

I am puzzled by the fact that you RoadForced the tires. That should have revealed any flatspots. What were the values?

Yeah, something is off, at the least the road force balance should have caught the tire pull which 2 shops missed so I don't get it. They didn't detect any tire issues or deformities. It was only after I went back to the dealer complaining of the tire pull that they were able to find it.

Road force numbers are as follows after the balance (first time).

Front Left - 9lbs, Right Front 11lbs, Left rear 14lbs, right rear 15lbs - second shop that road forced didn't say the numbers but said they were pretty in line with spec.

 

[dwchapmanjr]

Three out of the four were bad. Those three had numbers in very close sequence.

Yeah, I'm starting to think it may be the profile of the tire. Perhaps they're a sturdier tire that stiffens as it warms up versus my original tire. I'd have thought bad tires due to the conic one replaced but one of the fronts is new and seemed to be the cause of the vibration when it warmed up as letting out some pressure (1-2psi) helped, on the new tire as well as the old front one. It does seem to be limited to the front.

 

[JohnnyG]

I had a tire on a company pickup that acted that way. Went to a tire store (this was long ago, before road force) and they put the tire on a spin balancer. It looked pretty good at first, and balanced at the normal speeds. Took it for a test drive and same thing, when it got warm it started shaking. Took it back and they spun it faster and while warm, then we could see a hump develop in the tread. Finally figured out that the tread was separated in a small area and it would only show up at high speed as the tire warmed up and the rubber softened. With those "conical tires", who knows what else you might be dealing with on those tires.

 

[dwchapmanjr]

Took it back and they spun it faster and while warm, then we could see a hump develop in the tread.

Yeah, I so I have 3 different DOT dates on mine. I think before the tire replacement for the conic tire that was replaced I had two and possibly the other one in the DOT pair may have an unknown issue although I was able to reduce the vibration in the new tire as well.

This is really helpful to see if they can spin it faster to warm it up and see. These were road force balanced by two shops but I don't know how close they paid attention since they missed the conicity but leads me to believe they may not have paid close attention to it at all. Or by the time they got it on the balancer it cooled off.

This at least confirms I'm not entirely crazy and that the tire or tire(s) could be developing an issue when warmed up that are otherwise not seen.

 

[dwchapmanjr]

So I went for a few drives today under the premise of cold tires riding smooth and it did the opposite today so it must be something else. It vibrated a lot cold at all speeds a few times today and the 3rd drive was warm and rode smooth. I think I just need to drive it a bit more until its consistent and identifiable. Its really odd.

Thanks everyone for the advice/tips though!

 

[zorobabel]

First, tire vibrations tend to fall in the 50 mph to 70 mph range. Outside that range, the shocks tend to damp out the vibration.

The vibrations I've been having in the Maxima are above 70 mph. I always thought it was tires...

 

[dwchapmanjr]

Went back to dealer today where I purchased the tires earlier this year. They drove it on a known flat surface and could still feel a hint of it so they could reproduce it. This was after I went on a drive with the service manager. He said they've had a lot of complaints over this brand and tread tire (Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza). He recommended some Michelins for my next time. Said balance was spot on.

I trust them as they seem knowledgeable. Bitter sweet in that I know the issue and trust their determination but that its where I got the tires. With that said I realize this is also 10 months away from when I purchased the tires so they can't warranty them forever even-though they only have 3k miles on them.

It is getting better or has gotten better so wondering if its going to continue to as I drive more.

 

[Gladtojoin88]

Went back to dealer today where I purchased the tires earlier this year. They drove it on a known flat surface and could still feel a hint of it so they could reproduce it. This was after I went on a drive with the service manager. He said they've had a lot of complaints over this brand and tread tire (Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza). He recommended some Michelins for my next time. Said balance was spot on.

I trust them as they seem knowledgeable. Bitter sweet in that I know the issue and trust their determination but that its where I got the tires. With that said I realize this is also 10 months away from when I purchased the tires so they can't warranty them forever even-though they only have 3k miles on them.

It is getting better or has gotten better so wondering if its going to continue to as I drive more.

Id ask to be credited and traded out of them after insisting on road force balance to find out of round tires

 

[dwchapmanjr]

Id ask to be credited and traded out of them after insisting on road force balance to find out of round tires

I tried without luck. On the other hand on their website new tires come with a 90 day return for any reason guarantee so when I'm ready I may just use that to try other tires. There still is the odd chance its not just tires.

 

[Geow22]

I registered to share my experience here, hope to benefit other readers.

I have a 20 years old minivan, it drove very comfortable like luxury car with Michelins tires from factory with new car.

when I changed tires from pepboy after 6 years, the car started vibration when drove at ~65 mph. Did tire rotation, tire balance, wheel alignment, still the same, maybe a little bit better. Changed new Firestone tires after another 4 years, still vibration. I thought my minivan may have some hidden mechanical problems causing this highway speed vibration.

last month, I changed tires again to continental, to prepare for a long drive from LA to DC. Amazing, the moment I drove out of the American Tires, I felt I got my original luxury car back. Zero vibration, and quiet highway noise all the way for 3000 miles!

from now on, I will only buy tires from Michelins or continental. The price is 30% higher though.

 

[jrvn]

make sure the COLD PSI is correct

 

[xBa380]

I know this is an old topic bumped back up, but I am also having this issue on my 2010 Mazda 3… It has General RT43’s on it, relatively new. Develop a vibration at/around 65-70mph.

I do have a slightly bent rim, noted by Discount Tire, but it was also like that since I got the tires mounted and had zero issue with any vibration. They road force balanced just fine and they even double-checked after I had a tire replaced due to a non-replaceable puncture.

I also rotated the bent rim from back to front, front to opposite side, etc… Really no perceived change.

Front rotors had signs of being warped, so replaced those up front and new pads. Fixed the vibration when applying brake, but still have it off/on when freeway driving with a steering wheel shimmy. Sometimes it almost goes away completely, other times it can be a bit worse. Trying to trend if temperature and such has any influence on it. For a while the car would sit for a days or a week at a time (or more) as I wasn’t going into work everyday with it, so I thought maybe flat spots at first.

Tire pressure all good (cold), no other signs of issue. No sign of a bad wheel bearing or anything I can tell.