Tire effect on "poor" handling car

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I dunno.
The 123 can be thrown about pretty hard, in my experience.
I have an e36, and while the 123 is certainly softer, it can be cornered pretty hard.
The 123 also has a very solid structure, which my e36 convertible lacks.
If you want to drive a car as tossable as your e30, try an old MGB.
I consider my e36 convertible to be a modern analog of my old MGB.
It sounds about the same, it rides about the same and the structure is as loose.
A very entertaining car!
 
It can... and a convertible will not be as solid. I can tell that on my 135i which is a far better performer than our other six cars in every way...
 
So, my options, including TR score; Country of Manufacture; Weight

Michelin Hydroedge with Green X 6.73;US;20
Kumho eco Solus HM22 5.76;CN/KR;21
Yokohama Avid TRZ 6.38;US;20
General Altimax RT 6.43;MX/BR;18

There is also the Cooper CS4, which Pep Boys does not carry in 195/70R-14 but supposedly exists. Not sure how it rates but Ive heard lots of good. Not sure of weight or US-made status either...

So which would you buy? All but the michelin are about $65, the Michelin is $97, but buy four, get $70 is offered...
 
I've heard good things about the CS4s.......


Since two of my cars run 195/70/14s, it always made me wonder too, since you really can't expect a sporty tire out of a 14 inch tire...
 
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A lot of it also has to do with driver nerve.


Those bouncy older Mercedes seats don't inspire me to explore the limits in corners. They are great for isolating the driver from any pavement imperfections that get past the suspension, but that springiness separates one from "driving by the seat of his pants".
 
Tires are just like speakers.

One of the best and most cost effective upgrades you can make to ANY vehicle.

Many people here are confusing roll stiffness with cornering ability when comparing older platforms to newer ones.
 
JHZR2:

Despite not having the latest and greatest, I still think that you'll feel an improvement from good tires. For instance, braking is braking and in virtually all cars it is limited by tire grip. Furthermore tire design can influence braking distance even when lock up isn't involved. Any snow tire I have ever installed significantly increases braking distance even when well below lockup thresholds. The same can hold true when comparing between all-seasons, depending on just what the difference is between them.

I have a 1998 BMW 528 with MT and sport suspension. It's not an M car, it's pretty big and relatively heavy, not all that fast in a straight line and not nimble like an e30 "go kart" (reference from earlier in the thread). Despite all this, I put UHP summer tires on and can absolutely, without a doubt, every-minute-of-the-day feel a positive improvement over even high performance all seasons (like Michelin Pilot Sport A/S). I can even feel subtle differences between different types of UHP summer tires (Dunlop 2000E, Toyo T1-S, Toyo T1R and now my current PS2s). If better tires only made a difference in the best sports cars this wouldn't be the case.

Now, as long as I keep bushings, ball joints and shocks in good shape it handles pretty well and although it isn't a true sports car I feel it isn't a waste of UHP tires. With confidence-inspiring stick and excellent road condition communication I can really toss it into twisties when I have the opportunity and braking is great. There is also one particular emergency high speed accident avoidance maneuver I executed (with the Toyo T1Rs installed) that I am not sure I would have pulled off without UHP tires (seriously). It saved our bacon and potential totaling of the car.

There's another thread in here about whether Michelins are always better than other brands. IMO, Michelin seems to be "often" better than other brands but they make some lemons too. If you've done your research and the Michelins you're looking at are some of the "good" ones, then I would personally go for the Michelins over the Kuhmos. I'm not a Michelin fanboy - these PS2s are the first Michelins I've bought in 15 years. My dad always buys Michelins though.

Over the years I've seen lots of people give Kuhmos good reviews (sometimes to their surprise), or post after only 1000miles and say they love them and will never spend big bucks on tires again. Unfortunately a lot of times their pleasure doesn't last. You hear from a LOT fewer Kuhmo owners who got long tread life and were pleased from "cradle to grave" with their choice. Sure, they're out there, but in much lower numbers than owners who became displeased.
 
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OK, well Im leaning towards the Michelins. Thing is, in my size (195/70R14), they are either special or back ordered at all tire rack locations. That means that my approach is going to change a bit...

Im going to get my car aligned at the dealer, and keep driving on my oddly-worn Sport A2 tires through the summer. I dont think they are a hydroplaning hazard, given the depth of tread on the center section.

Next time Michelin has a $70 off sale, or if I se a deal at my local tire place, Ill get them. This lets me put a few more months on my existing tires and extract every last penny.

Then Ill get the new tires put on later on and re-align at the dealer again. Sure, that means another $90 alignment, but this is NBD to me. It gives me more peace of mind and more time to get everything done as I want it to be.

Now, in that time some other great tire may come out, or I may decide upon the Yoko Avid Touring S, or the Kumho eco Solus may get great marks on tire rack, and I choose it instead. Whatever happens happens... But so long as Michelin doesnt discontinue the 195/70R-14 size hydroedge, all is well and Ill continue planning to put them into service in the near future.
 
Well I got the following from Michelin...

Quote:
March 16, 2011

Hello,

Thank you for your email. We welcome the opportunity to serve you.


We apologize that the Michelin HydroEdge in size P195/70R14 tires are not available for retailers to order. However, at this time, we do not show a production date. Please check back with us in 4-6 weeks.



We would like to recommend the Michelin Harmony in your tire size. The Michelin Harmony offers similar all-season performance; quiet ride, comfort and a 80,000 mile tread warranty.


We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.


While Im sure the harmony is a great tire, I was really set on the hydroedge. For far less than the price of a harmony type tire, I can get either the yokohama avid or Cooper CS4.

Any thoughts? Never thought selecting tires would be so tough, but now what was a mainstream size tire is being put by the wayside...

What to do... Wait it out on the hydroedge???
 
I personally would stay away from Chinese tires too if possible. Korean tires I would have no problems with. Sounds like you have no way of knowing ahead of time. Regardless, the Kumhos seem to be a far poorer performer than the Michelins you're considering. That alone should point you away from the Kumhos.

Though your car may never be able to push the tires to the limit, you would still want to pick a good set - Hydroedge Green X isn't exactly a high performance tire, and sounds like a tire in a class well suited to your application. I say go with one of the better ones in this class, if not the Michelins, then something else comparable.
 
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What to do... Wait it out on the hydroedge???


Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S's on my last 2 Camrys: high perf tire on low perf car.

I heartily recommend this sort of mismatch! I'll bet you'll have so much better cornering, braking and confidence that you won't ever go back.

I hope you can wait for the HydroEdges and let us know!
 
Well, there have been a lot of good comments on the cooper touring CS4. This tire is only $65 each at tread depot and I got the following from Cooper tire customer service today:

Quote:
Thank you for your interest in Cooper tires. The 195/70R14 CS4 Touring
T rated is currently produced in our Tupelo, Mississippi plant.

Thank you,
Julie
Consumer Relations


So that might do it for me. Id be happy to buy the michelin, and since I just got my car aligned (did the tie rods, idler arm, shocks etc.), I may wait it out on my current funny-worn tires to stretch dollar bills. But now that things are good, the tires are not quite smooth (due to the funny wear), so Ill have to see how it goes.

But the CS4 may be my choice...
 
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Despite all this, I put UHP summer tires on and can absolutely, without a doubt, every-minute-of-the-day feel a positive improvement over even high performance all seasons (like Michelin Pilot Sport A/S).


It looks like I have to correct myself. Michelin PS2 are "max performance summer" according to TR, so that's a grade above UHP.

Anyways, all the rest of my rambling still stands
smile.gif
I believe that most resellers consider the Toyos I have run in the same class as the PS2 and not a class below. TR shows the Dunlop 2000Es that came on the car to be UHP, though.

I don't plan on stepping up any further to the TR grade "extreme performance summer" with this car, if they even sell anything small enough in that class for my package (235/45/17).
 
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I didn't read every reply to JHZR2's post, nor do I quite understand everything that I read cause I really just scanned most of the replys but, one comment I'd like to make is(a correction) that the LRR tires that the tire rack tested may have been done on a BMW also(like most of their testing is done) but, the test I read on the tire rack on LRR tires was done on a '10 PRIUS...Still, this PRIUS has more safety features than JHZR2's '82 MB just the same as any newer vehicle would have, compared to even a high end vehicle of 29 years ago.

I don't think that JHZR2 can go wrong with any name brand tire in 195-70-14 that is held in somewhat high reguard today as, I think that even a low end private label tire made by, "who knows what tire company", would probably be better than what came on an '82 MB, 29 years ago!

That said, I'm going for coffee!
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: oily boyd
Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S's on my last 2 Camrys: high perf tire on low perf car.

I heartily recommend this sort of mismatch! I'll bet you'll have so much better cornering, braking and confidence that you won't ever go back.


I must agree here. My 2007 Corolla, with the stock Bridgestone Insignia SE200 tires handled like a typical Toyota. Turn-in was delayed and steering responses were rather numb. But with a set of Yokohama TRZs, the car was transformed. Turn-in was crisp and road-holding was remarkable. Tire squeal was almost nil and I could hang corners much faster than I cared to try. Tires do more for a car than many realize.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Not every Michelin made is the cat's meow.


Amen to that. I've personally yet to love any Michelin tires I've driven on. They are not all BAD tires, but they are almost never worth their price premium.
 
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