Tips for driving a seal in straight..
- Thread starter mc2lizard
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I think I'm going to have to try that Pop_Rivit .. unfortunatley that involves trashing the new seal I already drove in to get it out.. oh well. I'd rather spend a few more bucks now then have to redo all this work.. TDI crank seals are not fun to replace lol.
Make sure the surface where the seal goes into is clean with no nicks from removing the old seal, a scotchbrite pad does a good job, for nicks 600 grit wet and dry will flatten it.
Put some Indian Head shellac on the outside of the seal.
Put some Indian Head shellac on the outside of the seal.
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Put it in the freezer for a day or so, then install it. The cold makes it slightly smaller, and I've had tight seals slip right in when they're at sub zero temperatures and the surrounding metal is at room temperature.
That's a very good advice.
Put it in the freezer for a day or so, then install it. The cold makes it slightly smaller, and I've had tight seals slip right in when they're at sub zero temperatures and the surrounding metal is at room temperature.
That's a very good advice.
I'll try and get a pic tonight.. Im actually gonna post up some pics from yesterday that I took.. it has some interesting pitting on the cam tips that I have seen on several tdi's Perhaps caused by prior use of regular PCMO without enough zddp or moly or EP/boundary lubrication addtives?
If you can still push the new one in and not be too far, then simply tap around the edges with a hammer and a dull probe.
A socket can also work very well.
If you decide to get a new one, deburr both parts and use a little RTV as a lube and seal for installation.
A socket can also work very well.
If you decide to get a new one, deburr both parts and use a little RTV as a lube and seal for installation.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
Huh? With what? A bench grinder??
I'm not saying it won't work... I've made lots of repairs over the years that would make BITOG folks cringe. But you're scaring me here, Chris.
Originally Posted By: mc2lizard
Well I got the main seal flange out on my tdi and managed to drive the seal out, but now i cant seem to tap in the new seal evenly.. its offset by maybe .5mm any tips on getting this sucker to go in evenly?
I'm not familiar with this application... so take this with a grain of salt. But for critical applications like crank seals, there will usually be an OEM tool used to drive or press the seal into place- and it will usually have a shoulder or some mechanism to set the seal depth and to ensure that the seal is installed straight.
Of course if you're doing the work yourself you might not have access to such tools... in which case you can only improvise. Many a time I've installed such seals using a pipe, a seal driver, a socket, a hammer... even a board. Something flat and sturdy that fits where you need it. If the seal needs to be recessed slightly, I have eyeballed these many a time- just tap it in a little at a time until it looks right and it's concentric all the way around. It can also help to put a thin coat of sealant (I prefer either locktite or anaerobic sealant, myself) around the OD of the seal. This will help it slip in more easily.
I'm not saying that any of this is the RIGHT way of doing the job (the 'right' way is to use the proper tool). Just saying that I've made this sort of improvised repair work lots of times.
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
Huh? With what? A bench grinder??
I'm not saying it won't work... I've made lots of repairs over the years that would make BITOG folks cringe. But you're scaring me here, Chris.
Originally Posted By: mc2lizard
Well I got the main seal flange out on my tdi and managed to drive the seal out, but now i cant seem to tap in the new seal evenly.. its offset by maybe .5mm any tips on getting this sucker to go in evenly?
I'm not familiar with this application... so take this with a grain of salt. But for critical applications like crank seals, there will usually be an OEM tool used to drive or press the seal into place- and it will usually have a shoulder or some mechanism to set the seal depth and to ensure that the seal is installed straight.
Of course if you're doing the work yourself you might not have access to such tools... in which case you can only improvise. Many a time I've installed such seals using a pipe, a seal driver, a socket, a hammer... even a board. Something flat and sturdy that fits where you need it. If the seal needs to be recessed slightly, I have eyeballed these many a time- just tap it in a little at a time until it looks right and it's concentric all the way around. It can also help to put a thin coat of sealant (I prefer either locktite or anaerobic sealant, myself) around the OD of the seal. This will help it slip in more easily.
I'm not saying that any of this is the RIGHT way of doing the job (the 'right' way is to use the proper tool). Just saying that I've made this sort of improvised repair work lots of times.
I usually use a flat piece of wood and a hammer. That's what I used to drive an axle seal in.
I have used wood and a hammer, or a big socket if I can find one that fits.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Yes I think it does have a beveled edge, I'll look once i get home.. Getting it started isnt the issue though.. that's super easy. It's getting it all the way in.. I was using a 1 lb dead blow mallet going around the edges at first, then tried a block of wood then a socket but.. I was hitting with considerable force and it was barely moving at all.. this sucker is a tight fit. Heck. to get the thing out i had to hammer away at it with a socket and a hammer of considerable size, destroying the old one in the process.. But I bought a new seal and put it in the freezerand am going to drive the uneven one thats in there now out and try to heat the aluminum flange as well ( heheh I know I'm going to get a comment from the girl this weekend about using the toaster oven for this..) and then im going to try using the wood/socket and mallet to drive it in if need be with the components at the different temps.. Im just hesitant to put any sealers in because IIRC its supposed to be installed dry and super clean.. and this is not a fun job to repeat on the TDI lol.. Hopefully I can pull an all-nighter have it done and out of the garage by tomorrow so I can put the mustang inside for the hurricane...
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Yes I think it does have a beveled edge, I'll look once i get home.. Getting it started isnt the issue though.. that's super easy. It's getting it all the way in.. I was using a 1 lb dead blow mallet going around the edges at first, then tried a block of wood then a socket but.. I was hitting with considerable force and it was barely moving at all.. this sucker is a tight fit. Heck. to get the thing out i had to hammer away at it with a socket and a hammer of considerable size, destroying the old one in the process.. But I bought a new seal and put it in the freezerand am going to drive the uneven one thats in there now out and try to heat the aluminum flange as well ( heheh I know I'm going to get a comment from the girl this weekend about using the toaster oven for this..) and then im going to try using the wood/socket and mallet to drive it in if need be with the components at the different temps.. Im just hesitant to put any sealers in because IIRC its supposed to be installed dry and super clean.. and this is not a fun job to repeat on the TDI lol.. Hopefully I can pull an all-nighter have it done and out of the garage by tomorrow so I can put the mustang inside for the hurricane...
Sadly the Bentley manual isn't much help with the rear main seal: "Install the new seal, lubricated with clean engine oil, with
closed side facing out using a suitable seal installation tool."
However, isn't it a one-piece seal & flange? The Bentley is a bit more help with that:
"The rear oil seal flange does not use a paper gasket.
Special silicone sealant is used instead.
• Apply a 2 to 3 mm (slightly less than 1/8 inch) bead of
new sealant to the flange as shown earlier. [put the bead on the flange including around the inside of the bolt holes]
Use a guide sleeve as necessary to protect the oil seal
and install the flange on the guide pins of the cylinder
block. Torque the bolts in a staggered pattern."
So you should be able to draw it in with the bolts, which are torqued to 15 Nm.
closed side facing out using a suitable seal installation tool."
However, isn't it a one-piece seal & flange? The Bentley is a bit more help with that:
"The rear oil seal flange does not use a paper gasket.
Special silicone sealant is used instead.
• Apply a 2 to 3 mm (slightly less than 1/8 inch) bead of
new sealant to the flange as shown earlier. [put the bead on the flange including around the inside of the bolt holes]
Use a guide sleeve as necessary to protect the oil seal
and install the flange on the guide pins of the cylinder
block. Torque the bolts in a staggered pattern."
So you should be able to draw it in with the bolts, which are torqued to 15 Nm.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Yeah... they come beveled.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Bevel the leading edge of the seal to help get it started.
All the quality seals I've seen have a bevel formed on the leading edge.
Yeah... they come beveled.
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