JHZR2
Staff member
Very interesting... can you tell me more? Which toyota engines might not be a non-interference type?
Any idea about the 2.4L non supercharged 4cyl in the previa minivans?
Thanks,
JMH
Timing belt?
- Thread starter JHZR2
- Start date
- Status
Any idea about the 2.4L non supercharged 4cyl in the previa minivans?
Thanks,
JMH
It's been awhile since I've thought about changing timing belts, and I never did change the one on the 87 Civic that we use to own. It had about 120k miles on it when we donated it. It was supposed to be changed at a pretty short interval, something like 60k miles (?). I reasoned that if the belts really needed to be changed at such an interval there would be dead Hondas littering our highways like roadkill, judging from how well regular people attend to regular maintenance. The short interval appeared to be a conservative estimate, probably accounting for sustained high speeds and hard acceleration.
People do have timing belt failures, but with Hondas being one of the most popular cars in the US do we see such failures often ? We have a Taurus, and although they seem to have the obvious design failures under control, it seems that I heard about Taurus transmission failures much more than I did Honda timing belt failures.
People do have timing belt failures, but with Hondas being one of the most popular cars in the US do we see such failures often ? We have a Taurus, and although they seem to have the obvious design failures under control, it seems that I heard about Taurus transmission failures much more than I did Honda timing belt failures.
wow thanks a lot for the quick answers, i was just wondering cause i just bought a 97 civic and have no idea about the history of maintenence. the belts squeal alot when its damp out when i first start it. the car has 45k on it maybe i'll wait til 60k then change it.
A timing belt will never squeal, it has little cogs that mesh with dimples in the driving/driven pulleys. If it ever slipped, even by a notch, the engine will have "jumped time" and need resetting. One notch will generally run poorly, but more will not run/break things.
You also can't see the timing belt; it is under a cover. Some cars like Chrysler 2.2/2.5s make it pretty easy with a "split cover" to take half the cover off and examine the belt. Most though you gotta take the other drive belts off then the crank pulley then the timing belt cover to see things.
You also can't see the timing belt; it is under a cover. Some cars like Chrysler 2.2/2.5s make it pretty easy with a "split cover" to take half the cover off and examine the belt. Most though you gotta take the other drive belts off then the crank pulley then the timing belt cover to see things.
Go to Gates.com
Click on Timing belts, and then Replacement Guide.
Not hard to find; I just did. It lists vehicles, and mileage recommendations. It notes the engines that are interference design.
I never really knew what it did? so what does it do? how often does in need replacing? and umm why does it cause so much damage when it breaks?
thanks.
thanks.
it's a belt that takes power from the main drive (crankshaft) and use it to turn various other things. In overhead cam engines, the cams that move the valves are powered via the timing belt.
In "most" OHC enignes, the valves acutally move far enough into the cylinder when they open that the piston will hit it when it moves up. It is therefore important that the valves always be up (closed) enough to not be hit by the piston.
If the timing belt breaks, the valves are usually hit by the pistons and this can severely dameage things, often ruining an engine.
Some cars have what is called a "non-interference" design, meaing that the valves cannot be hit by the piston if the belt breaks. You just roll to a stop. Most Toyota enginges are non-interference engines.
Most timing belts are recommended to be replaced every 60-70k miles, but it probably varies by maker.
In "most" OHC enignes, the valves acutally move far enough into the cylinder when they open that the piston will hit it when it moves up. It is therefore important that the valves always be up (closed) enough to not be hit by the piston.
If the timing belt breaks, the valves are usually hit by the pistons and this can severely dameage things, often ruining an engine.
Some cars have what is called a "non-interference" design, meaing that the valves cannot be hit by the piston if the belt breaks. You just roll to a stop. Most Toyota enginges are non-interference engines.
Most timing belts are recommended to be replaced every 60-70k miles, but it probably varies by maker.
connect the crank to the cam, and turns the cam, which controls valve timing. On certain engines, if the valves are in the open position when the timing belt breaks........the piston will make contact with the valves on the next upstroke.
Timing belts with square teeth last about 60,000- 90,000 miles, rounded teeth belts go about 25,000 miles longer.
Timing belt idler pulleys and tensioners can squeak when worn , lacking lubricant, or seized, and the belt squeaks over them.
Timing belt idler pulleys and tensioners can squeak when worn , lacking lubricant, or seized, and the belt squeaks over them.
when you have a 97 it is also an issue of age and mileage. I have a 97, interference engine but only 25,000 miles on it. Issue was replace teh belt due to fear of dry rot and cracks due to age or let it go, looking at 8 year old belt. This is a twin tubo to replase the belt is $500-600 so you can understand the problem. Also, if belt broke the cost would be $2500-7000. To just view the belt is almost as much cost as replacing it due to all kinds of crap to remove. Well, I had it replaced and as suspected the belt was actually in pretty good shape. So what did $550 teach me, it said the new belt will be good for another 8 years or 60000 miles under similar conditions as the past, ie: garaged, moderate climate etc.etc.
If you have a non interence engine and don't mind being stranded somewhere then let it go. On the other had, $200 in most cases is worth the insurance
If you have a non interence engine and don't mind being stranded somewhere then let it go. On the other had, $200 in most cases is worth the insurance
Trey, I do not have the info on the '97 Civic in front of me, but several of the Hondas of that period have 105,000 mile/7 year change intervals for the timing belt. If you have the Owner's Manual for the car this info is listed in there.
While most Toyotas do not have interference engines (as knew said) most Hondas DO have interference engines so you should find out when Honda recommends timing belt replacement.
Most mechanics will also recommend replacing the water pump at the same time as it is driven by the timing belt. Replacing the water pump requires removing the timing belt so it is almost a repeat of the timing belt service.
While most Toyotas do not have interference engines (as knew said) most Hondas DO have interference engines so you should find out when Honda recommends timing belt replacement.
Most mechanics will also recommend replacing the water pump at the same time as it is driven by the timing belt. Replacing the water pump requires removing the timing belt so it is almost a repeat of the timing belt service.
Toyota previa engines are either the 2TZFE(NA) or the 2TZFZE(S/C). They both use a timing chain. I have no idea if they are interference or not.
kenw,
But if the timing belt is in for 105,000 miles then 210,000 seems a bit long for a water pump.
Cheers
But if the timing belt is in for 105,000 miles then 210,000 seems a bit long for a water pump.
Cheers
good point... 210k may be pushing it. I was referring of course to a more typical 60k interval which is 120k on a WP.
105k on a timing belt seems optimistic, especially on an interference engine unless they've got a special belt there. Which of course it could be....and if so I bet they are proud of it, too....
According to my research, for Toyota's, if it has a timing belt, it's a non-interference engine. If it has a timing chain, it's an interference engine.
I agree with changing the water pump every other time.
Also, it's a good idea to replace the belt/chain tensioner/spring and camshaft, crankshaft oil seals. If the tensioner locks up or is out of alignment due to worn bearings, it will shread your belt.
[ November 24, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: noodlerooney ]
I agree with changing the water pump every other time.
Also, it's a good idea to replace the belt/chain tensioner/spring and camshaft, crankshaft oil seals. If the tensioner locks up or is out of alignment due to worn bearings, it will shread your belt.
[ November 24, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: noodlerooney ]
noodlerooney,
If one is changing his timing belt every 60,000 then every other timing belt seems reasonable for the water pump, but if one is using the Honda recommended mileage of 105,000 miles (for at least some models for the last 6 years), or the Toyota recommended mileage (at least for some models for at least the last 6 years too) then those water pumps are going to be in for a long time. 180,000 to 210,000 for a water pump seems like a long life for a water pump.
Trey needs to find the actual mileage/year recommendation from Honda on his timing belt. If it is 60,000 miles then I think you and KenW are reasonable with your every other timing belt recommendation for the water pumps, but if Honda is recommending a longer interval then the incremental cost of changing the water pump with each timing belt is probably the more reasonable, and prudent, course of action.
Trey needs to provide more info on his car so we can give considerd advice on his "apples" rather than advice that applies to the "oranges" that lurk in our garages.
Cheers.
[ November 24, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: BeltwayBandit ]
If one is changing his timing belt every 60,000 then every other timing belt seems reasonable for the water pump, but if one is using the Honda recommended mileage of 105,000 miles (for at least some models for the last 6 years), or the Toyota recommended mileage (at least for some models for at least the last 6 years too) then those water pumps are going to be in for a long time. 180,000 to 210,000 for a water pump seems like a long life for a water pump.
Trey needs to find the actual mileage/year recommendation from Honda on his timing belt. If it is 60,000 miles then I think you and KenW are reasonable with your every other timing belt recommendation for the water pumps, but if Honda is recommending a longer interval then the incremental cost of changing the water pump with each timing belt is probably the more reasonable, and prudent, course of action.
Trey needs to provide more info on his car so we can give considerd advice on his "apples" rather than advice that applies to the "oranges" that lurk in our garages.
Cheers.
[ November 24, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: BeltwayBandit ]
- Status
