Timing Belt

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's called preventive maintenance. Unless the owner was strapped for cash, or was planning to sell the car soon, it does not make practical or economic sense to neglect the rest of the TB system. When I had mine changed, I had them change all the other TB system parts. including other accessible nonTB parts - like the o-ring seals. I just didn't want to spend more time and money to have to go back in there a second time when another part would've failed for lack of foresight.
 
Originally Posted By: tufa4311
I guess there is nothing I can do about it now - personally, I think it was a bad idea not to change out the entire timing belt system and water pump. Now the water pump, tensioners and pulleys are all expected to last another 100k miles...


I realize this is a difficult decision from a financial matter.

But, it's not too late to have the work done. It just may not be feasible! You can have the work done & completed to your liking at the earliest convenience. This way you can sleep better at night.
smile.gif


Yes, it was a bad idea NOT to replace all of the items on the list...if you were the previous owner and keeping the MDX.

But, it was a decision that the PO made, knowing that they were not keeping the vehicle long enough to justify the extra cost. You may have made the same decision in the same situation...Maybe?

I don't recall if you mentioned the Cam/Crank Seals too!
 
Usually dealers will try to place the whole shebang, plus a lot of extra stuff while there, like rear main seal on some vehicles. Lots of extra money for them and added insurance and added expense for you.

You've got a new timing belt and it works with no side effects, so Id just ride it and let it go. Many years ago I had a Toyota and had the timing (belt only) replaced at 60k and I kept that vehicle till 145,000 miles.

But no, I think your wasting money to have them reinspect timing belt components that aren't having an issue right now.
 
Originally Posted By: tufa4311

1. should they have replaced the idler pulley/tensioner pulley/tensioner as they were replacing the timing belt?
2. I'm told by a mechanic that there will be indications if these other parts start to fail such as noise, etc.
3. My concern is I'm told that even if the timing belt is fine if these other parts fail they will cause the timing belt to fail anyway and boom half your engine is gone.
4. next weekend I'm having the breaks looked at due to squealing, can the mechanic visually inspect these tensioners/bearings and pulleys to confirm all is well or or that not enough access for visual inspection.

Please speak to each of my 4 points.


1) Usually yes but this engine uses sealed double row ball bearings in the pulleys as OE. They are much more durable than the single row sometimes found in the lower stress trailing idler pulleys on some engines.

2) Usually they will make noise, it would be very rare for one to seize and go out quietly.

3) Its certainly possible but new parts also fail, the chances of a catastrophic failure without some sort of warning like noise or a leak is unlikely.

4) Not really.

When they checked it the bearing still had some resistance in them and didn't spin like mad and make noise they were/are probably fine.
Tensioners if they are oil filled type tend to leak when going bad and is easily seen.
The water pump bearing in this engine has fairly low stress from the belt tension, high belt tension is usually what kills most external pumps. The pump on this one is protected from the elements.
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
I change mine ever other belt change.

Yes I keep vehicles that long.


What's the mileage you change the belt at?
 
Originally Posted By: Oro_O



Anyone who tells you that you are over-thinking this, or should ignore it, is ignorant and does not understand the issues here. clinebarger is the only poster so far who has given you useful information.




Hey, it's the ignorant guy who doesn't understand the issues just checking in.

Is your recommendation seriously to drop another 700 bucks on getting all this replaced? Because I don't see any actual advice in your post, just a bash of other members' opinions? That's quite a bit of money to replace a water pump as preventative maintenance. The original poster already spoke with the mechanic who performed the work, why not trust him rather than a bunch of internet "experts" who had a Honda with an Isuzu engine a decade ago?

Your SLX was an Isuzu with an Isuzu engine, your experiences aren't directly applicable here. Not that is matters since you didn't even do the service yourself. Anyone who has actually done the job on a Pilot, Accord or Odyssey has actual experience on this same engine. Sure, many would replace all the pieces while the were there. I'm not sure many would go back and replace the water pump and idlers if they were skipped at the last service. You seem to be answering the first question, but really only the second is relevant to this post.
 
Last edited:
You know what would be great? It would be great if there was direction in the Acura Maintenance Schedule:

http://owners.acura.com/service-maintenance/minder?year=2006&model=MDX#mid^YD1866JNW

I don't see it - I see the timing belt replacement at 105K/7 Years but it says nothing about tensioners, idler bearings, and pulleys. To be fair it does say to just inspect the water pump. Why does it not speak to the entire TB system.

Also, boys and girls, let's keep our eye on the ball. This isn't about one upping each other. Everyone has an opinion and that's why I joined the forum.

Again, I think the best way to come to a decision on this is what does Acura say? Why isn't it in the Maintenance Schedule, or did I just miss it?
 
The Man.Schedule says noting about TBparts, just the belt itself...why would they not be specifc?

100,000 km: Replace timing belt & inspect water pump if regularly driven in very low temp (under -29 C; -20 F) or frequently used for towing a trailer
168,000 km or 84 months: Replace timing belt & inspect water pump.
 
with subarus, its pretty much ALWAYS the tensioner or one of the various rollers that fails. The belts are usually over-engineered. in short, do the rollers/tensioners, or do not do the job at all.
 
While no one can make the decision for you, I'd like to share a recent experience.

I just replaced both cylinder heads on a Customer's '05 MDX because of a seized water pump that took out the timing belt,the tensioner and idler rollers, and, subsequently, bent valves on 3 of the 6 cylinders (2 cyl. on 1 head, 1 cyl. on the other). The tensioner and idler rollers were absolutely destroyed. I'm surmising that the heat generated by the friction of the belt sliding over the seized water pump pulley melted the bearing seals and grease, causing their failure. Technically, the belt never actually broke, but it reduced itself to a collection of reinforcing cords held together with bits of melted belt with the outer rollers of the tensioner and idler fused to it. I have it hanging in my shop as a horrible warning...

Anyway, this vehicle had right around 160,000 km (approx 100,000 miles) when this happened. The original timing belt was replaced by an Acura Dealer at approx. 100,000 km. No other parts were replaced when the belt was done since they probably looked fine at the time. It should be noted here that the water pump failure occured right around the mileage interval that Honda recommends the initial belt replacement.

While I doubt OEM Honda water pump failure at this mileage could be considered typical, I personally don't take chances that the pump nor the other timing components will last until the next belt change interval. As a matter of fact, if a Customer balks at having all the critical components replaced I don't take on the work. After taking the time to explain to the Customer my reasons for wanting to do this, very few decline and go elsewhere.
 
Guys... it's not good advice to tell the OP that the parts should have been replaced. In fact it's not advice at all. It's already done. They should have been. They weren't. It's too late.

The simple facts are that from here there is no cheap way to replace the pump, tensioner and pulleys.

The question is given the situation would you pay another 500 bucks plus to have them replaced or take your chances. There isn't a right or wrong answer, and it may vary from person to person since one's tolerance of risk varies.

Another interesting question would be if you would pass on a vehicle with this history if it were in good condition otherwise and a relative deal?

Personally I would keep an eye out for noises and take my chances. The cost of replacing the parts is at least 10% the cost of an engine replacement (with lkq, not with new) and that's just too much... or at least there are too many other things that can happen on a car to pick one thing and throw money at it.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
Guys... it's not good advice to tell the OP that the parts should have been replaced. In fact it's not advice at all. It's already done. They should have been. They weren't. It's too late.

The simple facts are that from here there is no cheap way to replace the pump, tensioner and pulleys.

The question is given the situation would you pay another 500 bucks plus to have them replaced or take your chances. There isn't a right or wrong answer, and it may vary from person to person since one's tolerance of risk varies.

Another interesting question would be if you would pass on a vehicle with this history if it were in good condition otherwise and a relative deal?

Personally I would keep an eye out for noises and take my chances. The cost of replacing the parts is at least 10% the cost of an engine replacement (with lkq, not with new) and that's just too much... or at least there are too many other things that can happen on a car to pick one thing and throw money at it.


Well, I think many of the replies, mine included, require some reading between the lines that lead to the conclusion that we are gently recommending the OP bite the bullet and get the work done. While you are correct that this could cost over 10% of the cost of engine replacement, conversely, it would be close to 90% cheaper. Also, what's the value of peace of mind for a mechanical novice over worrying that every noise you are now hyper wary of is impending engine armegeddon?!? You are also right that everyone's tolerance for risk (in particular financial) varies greatly.

With respect to your question on whether or not I/we would pass on a vehicle with this history; personally, other than a negotiating point, it would be a non-issue. To pass on an otherwise good vehicle because of an issue that is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things that can be "wrong" with one (albeit with potentially major consequences) wouldn't make sense.
 
Originally Posted By: Canucklehead_31
It should be noted here that the water pump failure occured right around the mileage interval that Honda recommends the initial belt replacement.


Can you clarify this - the TB was replaced and water pump inspected at 100,000 KM. When did the water pump fail? At what mileage?

(we should also take into account that, if this was i Canada, we are talking about more extreme winter weather conditions which the service manuals do note will shorten the life of these parts). I'm in TX.
 
Last edited:
Here's my saga on a recent timing belt event:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...he_#Post3561499

When I removed enough timing parts to reach the coolant leak, I inspected them and they were in good condition. Bearings were good and the hydraulic tensioner was not leaking. It never crossed my mind that something simple like a bolt would fail and almost kill my engine.

Everything has since been replaced and I have no fear of putting my foot to the floor. I now have a better understanding of what type of failure will cause what type of damage. With a clockwise engine rotation when looking at the front of the engine, components on the counter-clockwise side of the cam sprockets will have a slightly less chance of bending valves that if the failed component was between or clockwise of the sprockets. In the Honda 3.5, the tensioner and tensioning roller is counter side and the waterpump and idler roller are clockwise side.

It all comes down to your tolerance of risk vs. the tolerance of spending money. Nobody can make that decision for you, but if you can turn your own wrenches like I did it makes it easier to avoid the risk of damage.
 
I have a 04 ody- did the first timing belt at 120K miles; just did the belt and the water pump- they said tensioner was fine. At 240k I had the timing belt done again with new water pump and I had them put in a new tensioner- the old tensioner looked fine but I was like- why risk it. I think you will be fine. I drive my van hard and do not baby it. If you are worried about the tensioner- I think you will be ok.
 
Originally Posted By: tufa4311
Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
The last one was a Montero that lost the "inspected" pump 1100 miles after the belt was replaced.


What damage, if any, was caused due to the water pump failure? Was there warning or did it just fail?

I still dk what to do. Half are telling me to do it, the other half not to. I am confident that the pulleys, tensioners, and pump looked fine during the last timing belt replacement - but were they good enough to last another 100K when the next timing belt replacement would be scheduled for...


The water pump seal had a total failure, and was dumping coolant out of the weep hole. The bearing remained intact so no mechanical damage was done. The motor was nearly overheated because the owner drove it home, stopping every couple of miles to add water. It ended up costing nearly $700 to fix it. A 1995 Montero V6 with 240k on it that had been apart a few times. Not the easiest vehicle to work on....

If it was me, I would swap it out. But then it's only the cost of parts, and maybe a couple hours of peaceful wrenching to do the work. Parts and labor would run $700 to $1100 depending on local market. Your cash flow and comfortable level of risk determine the way you proceed.
 
Originally Posted By: tufa4311
Originally Posted By: Canucklehead_31
It should be noted here that the water pump failure occured right around the mileage interval that Honda recommends the initial belt replacement.


Can you clarify this - the TB was replaced and water pump inspected at 100,000 KM. When did the water pump fail? At what mileage?

(we should also take into account that, if this was i Canada, we are talking about more extreme winter weather conditions which the service manuals do note will shorten the life of these parts). I'm in TX.



The water pump failed at approx 160,000 km. As mentioned, this is close to the Factory recommended mileage interval for initial timing belt replacement. As far as the temperature extremes shortening the belt change interval, Honda defines these as regularly driving in temperatures above 110 degrees F (43 C) or below -20 F (-29 C) and/or frequent trailer towing. I'm not sure what Honda uses as a benchmark to define "regularly".

While the temperature in my part of the Country can dip well below this on infrequent occasions and stay there for several days at a time, the perception that it is this cold here regularly is just that, a perception, and not the reality. Similar to the common misconception up here that temperatures in Texas are always extremely hot. The average low temperature in the coldest month of the year (January) where I am is 22 F (-16 C).

It seems most Dealers here push the 60,000 mile (100,000 km) interval but the reality is our temperatures just don't warrant that according to Honda's schedule, so I think it has more to do with generating service business. As a compromise to those who have the fear of God put into them by the Dealer, I try to get the Cusomer to delay replacement until at least 140,000 km which also usually coincides with the 7 year time recommendation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top