Three spark plug questions
- Thread starter paulri
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I know there will never be consensus on anti-seize but this is similar to the product I use.
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
Last edited:
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
Originally Posted by tomcat27
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I love it. A man after my own heart. A spark plug delivers high voltage to a metal terminal where it jumps to another metal terminal. I think AC, Champion, and all the other manufacturers have got that scoped out.
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I love it. A man after my own heart. A spark plug delivers high voltage to a metal terminal where it jumps to another metal terminal. I think AC, Champion, and all the other manufacturers have got that scoped out.
Originally Posted by djb
Originally Posted by Leo99
4. You didn't mention it but some modern plugs come with anti-seize already on the threads. Check this and have anit-seize on hand if you will need it. You don't want the threads to seize in your engine.
Most plugs have specific plating to avoid seizing rather than using anti-seize compound.
Yes they do, and I have seen those same plated plugs have thread galling.
Originally Posted by Leo99
4. You didn't mention it but some modern plugs come with anti-seize already on the threads. Check this and have anit-seize on hand if you will need it. You don't want the threads to seize in your engine.
Most plugs have specific plating to avoid seizing rather than using anti-seize compound.
Yes they do, and I have seen those same plated plugs have thread galling.
Originally Posted by tomcat27
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I've never had bad luck using another brand of plug in an other than spec'd vehicle.
I have used Bosch in Honda's requiring NGK and AC Delco in Mopar requiring Champion or even
MotorCraft in GM. However I have had bad luck specifically with Champion overall even in Chryslers
that they came and buying them again brand new and trying them again in same car.
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I've never had bad luck using another brand of plug in an other than spec'd vehicle.
I have used Bosch in Honda's requiring NGK and AC Delco in Mopar requiring Champion or even
MotorCraft in GM. However I have had bad luck specifically with Champion overall even in Chryslers
that they came and buying them again brand new and trying them again in same car.
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Originally Posted by Char Baby
Originally Posted by tomcat27
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I've never had bad luck using another brand of plug in an other than spec'd vehicle.
I have used Bosch in Honda's requiring NGK and AC Delco in Mopar requiring Champion or even
MotorCraft in GM. However I have had bad luck specifically with Champion overall even in Chryslers
that they came and buying them again brand new and trying them again in same car.
I think it's generally a rule-of-thumb to use the factory plugs - i.e., you know they should work just as well as the ones that came out. However, there are a few engines (90s Nissans come to mind-especially the VQ-series V6) that would act up without the factory plugs. In the VQ's case, the factory NGKs provided some sort of feedback voltage to the coils that was necessary - the car would run rough and trigger a CEL with something else, even if it was OE-spec metal.
I also know that Lexus specifies the OE Denso by part number on the 2GR 3.5 V6s, though Toyota shows no such requirement on the same engine in their extensive lineup. I know if it's a transverse engine that needs the plenum off to do plugs, I would never chance having to do it a second time in order to save $3-5 per plug. In an I4 that's a 5-min job, sure, you could experiment with the realization that it MAY cause an issue.
Originally Posted by tomcat27
I have never had bad luck with any brand of plug. I have used Autolite plats and iridiums in Dodges and Toyotas with good results. that being said, NGK and Denso are a safe bet. my Nissan owners manual actually calls for Denso's that are pre-indexed to ensure the best results, performance, mpg.
I've never had bad luck using another brand of plug in an other than spec'd vehicle.
I have used Bosch in Honda's requiring NGK and AC Delco in Mopar requiring Champion or even
MotorCraft in GM. However I have had bad luck specifically with Champion overall even in Chryslers
that they came and buying them again brand new and trying them again in same car.
I think it's generally a rule-of-thumb to use the factory plugs - i.e., you know they should work just as well as the ones that came out. However, there are a few engines (90s Nissans come to mind-especially the VQ-series V6) that would act up without the factory plugs. In the VQ's case, the factory NGKs provided some sort of feedback voltage to the coils that was necessary - the car would run rough and trigger a CEL with something else, even if it was OE-spec metal.
I also know that Lexus specifies the OE Denso by part number on the 2GR 3.5 V6s, though Toyota shows no such requirement on the same engine in their extensive lineup. I know if it's a transverse engine that needs the plenum off to do plugs, I would never chance having to do it a second time in order to save $3-5 per plug. In an I4 that's a 5-min job, sure, you could experiment with the realization that it MAY cause an issue.
Originally Posted by paulri
I am going to be changing the spark plugs on my Civic this month, but I have a couple of questions first.
(1) Is there something else that really needs to be done with the plugs? One of the reasons why I want to give it a shot with the Civic (and not the Sienna) is that I don't have to remove anything to get at the wires & plugs. So my question is, is my just changing the plugs, kind of like changing the filter without changing the oil?
(2) I hear a lot about NGK iridium plugs. I get the iridium part (longer life), but I'm seeing other companies list iridium plugs. Is there any reason why I should buy from NGK in particular? NAPA has some Bosch plugs.
(3) I am seeing a lot of information about gaps. As long as the plug is identified as the one for my engine, do I need to worry about this when buying new ones?
1.Aside from maybe checking the gap, and maybe some dielectric grease in the ignition coil where it snaps onto the plug... nothing else.
2.Iridium can offer longer life, but, it is countered with reduced area of the tip. If you get the "Laser Iridium", then it will have a longer life due to the platinum disc on the ground electrode.
3. Pretty much no. NGK is very reputable when it comes to consistency of their pre-gapped plugs. If it floats your boat, check them with feeler gages, not the coin ones.
I am going to be changing the spark plugs on my Civic this month, but I have a couple of questions first.
(1) Is there something else that really needs to be done with the plugs? One of the reasons why I want to give it a shot with the Civic (and not the Sienna) is that I don't have to remove anything to get at the wires & plugs. So my question is, is my just changing the plugs, kind of like changing the filter without changing the oil?
(2) I hear a lot about NGK iridium plugs. I get the iridium part (longer life), but I'm seeing other companies list iridium plugs. Is there any reason why I should buy from NGK in particular? NAPA has some Bosch plugs.
(3) I am seeing a lot of information about gaps. As long as the plug is identified as the one for my engine, do I need to worry about this when buying new ones?
1.Aside from maybe checking the gap, and maybe some dielectric grease in the ignition coil where it snaps onto the plug... nothing else.
2.Iridium can offer longer life, but, it is countered with reduced area of the tip. If you get the "Laser Iridium", then it will have a longer life due to the platinum disc on the ground electrode.
3. Pretty much no. NGK is very reputable when it comes to consistency of their pre-gapped plugs. If it floats your boat, check them with feeler gages, not the coin ones.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I know there will never be consensus on anti-seize but this is similar to the product I use.
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
WIth anti-seize, you need to remember to reduce the torque when you torque them up, easy with a torque wrench. Visual rotation is trickier... for the "20% less" torque guideline
I know there will never be consensus on anti-seize but this is similar to the product I use.
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
WIth anti-seize, you need to remember to reduce the torque when you torque them up, easy with a torque wrench. Visual rotation is trickier... for the "20% less" torque guideline
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Sorry, can't agree with any this. There is plenty of room in the thread profile to hold the anti-seize. I've used aluminum anti-seize for years in aluminum heads without problems. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Note "second and third thread" in this description: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php
Also-
https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-contaminated-o2-sensor/
"If the new sensor does not have anti-seize pre-applied, be sure to apply some to the threads prior to installing the sensor. Do not put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads. Getting anti-seize compound on the sensing area will contaminate it."
Likewise, extruding excessive anti-seize from the spark plugs will eventually work its way downstream to the lambda sensors.
I won't back down on this one, IMHO that's a grossly excessive amount of anti-seize.... multiplied by the number of plugs in that bank. But that's just my opinion.
Originally Posted by Kestas
Originally Posted by HangFire
In addition, Honda's have aluminum heads, and that appears to be aluminum anti-seize. A dissimilar metal to both sides should be used in all cases. For uncoated steel plugs in Honda's Aluminum heads I would use Bronze anti-seize, in a vanishingly small quantity.
I don't follow your logic. Why should a dissimilar metal be used?
It's not my logic, it is industry practice.
While all anti-seizes are used to prevent galling, there are different chemical purposes and strategies used by different anti-seize types and applications. Prevent rust. Prevent dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion. Prevent similar metal cold welding. Prevent water intrusion.
There is a lot to the choice. Copper should be avoided where stainless steel is involved, but is great for other applications, up to certain temperatures. Nickel for really high temp (which is why the NGK's are nickel plated). Aluminum for many steel on steel, steel on iron applications. There are also metal-free choices.
There are exceptions. In Marine applications you might use one with Zinc content for the sacrificial ions, even though there may be a Zinc plated connector (screwed into Aluminum) involved.
This has been well-discussed on BITOG before. There seems to be no conformity of opinion. For that reason, I'll not debate any further. You can look into it for yourself.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1942399/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2945586/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1828791/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4504652/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2062494/Re:_What_kind_of_antiseize_for
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904468
Sorry, can't agree with any this. There is plenty of room in the thread profile to hold the anti-seize. I've used aluminum anti-seize for years in aluminum heads without problems. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Note "second and third thread" in this description: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/antiseize.php
Also-
https://www.underhoodservice.com/tech-tip-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-contaminated-o2-sensor/
"If the new sensor does not have anti-seize pre-applied, be sure to apply some to the threads prior to installing the sensor. Do not put excessive amounts of anti-seize onto the threads. Getting anti-seize compound on the sensing area will contaminate it."
Likewise, extruding excessive anti-seize from the spark plugs will eventually work its way downstream to the lambda sensors.
I won't back down on this one, IMHO that's a grossly excessive amount of anti-seize.... multiplied by the number of plugs in that bank. But that's just my opinion.
Originally Posted by Kestas
Originally Posted by HangFire
In addition, Honda's have aluminum heads, and that appears to be aluminum anti-seize. A dissimilar metal to both sides should be used in all cases. For uncoated steel plugs in Honda's Aluminum heads I would use Bronze anti-seize, in a vanishingly small quantity.
I don't follow your logic. Why should a dissimilar metal be used?
It's not my logic, it is industry practice.
While all anti-seizes are used to prevent galling, there are different chemical purposes and strategies used by different anti-seize types and applications. Prevent rust. Prevent dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion. Prevent similar metal cold welding. Prevent water intrusion.
There is a lot to the choice. Copper should be avoided where stainless steel is involved, but is great for other applications, up to certain temperatures. Nickel for really high temp (which is why the NGK's are nickel plated). Aluminum for many steel on steel, steel on iron applications. There are also metal-free choices.
There are exceptions. In Marine applications you might use one with Zinc content for the sacrificial ions, even though there may be a Zinc plated connector (screwed into Aluminum) involved.
This has been well-discussed on BITOG before. There seems to be no conformity of opinion. For that reason, I'll not debate any further. You can look into it for yourself.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1942399/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2945586/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1828791/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4504652/1
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2062494/Re:_What_kind_of_antiseize_for
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2904468
A 1998 civic has wires as well as a distributor cap and rotor, it isn't coil on plug.
With that in mind:
1) Like replacing filter without oil, not exactly. At a minimum inspection/testing of the wires and cap and rotor would be advisable. I personally would use only Honda or NGK wires and a Honda cap and rotor.
2) NGK or Denso only in my opinion. Bosch sometimes will catalog a plug is either out of heat range or has a wider span than the "correct" plug. I have seen this cause strange issues. If Bosch is the OEM then it will be fine. In this case appears the specified plugs are Honda 98079-5514G Spark Plug (ZFR5F-11) (NGK), Honda 98079-5515G Spark Plug (KJ16CR-L11) (DENSO), Honda 98079-5614G Spark Plug (ZFR6F-11) (NGK), Honda 98079-5615G Spark Plug (KJ20CR-L11) (DENSO) all of these seem to be copper core plugs. All of the exotic metal plugs are about long life.
3) Typically fine wire plugs (platin, iridium and so forth) come pre gapped and should not be adjusted, regular copper plugs check gap and adjust if needed. (there are exceptions to the rule).
With that in mind:
1) Like replacing filter without oil, not exactly. At a minimum inspection/testing of the wires and cap and rotor would be advisable. I personally would use only Honda or NGK wires and a Honda cap and rotor.
2) NGK or Denso only in my opinion. Bosch sometimes will catalog a plug is either out of heat range or has a wider span than the "correct" plug. I have seen this cause strange issues. If Bosch is the OEM then it will be fine. In this case appears the specified plugs are Honda 98079-5514G Spark Plug (ZFR5F-11) (NGK), Honda 98079-5515G Spark Plug (KJ16CR-L11) (DENSO), Honda 98079-5614G Spark Plug (ZFR6F-11) (NGK), Honda 98079-5615G Spark Plug (KJ20CR-L11) (DENSO) all of these seem to be copper core plugs. All of the exotic metal plugs are about long life.
3) Typically fine wire plugs (platin, iridium and so forth) come pre gapped and should not be adjusted, regular copper plugs check gap and adjust if needed. (there are exceptions to the rule).
At the sake of repeating myself and a few others, I would use the OE plug. I would not use a precious metal plug. You are only changing then every 30K miles or thereabouts. Plus they are what, $3?
I do check gaps on copper plugs since it is so easy; even though I have not had to adjust a new plug in years...
I only use NGK or Denso on Honda Toyota Nissans.
I think one post mentioned checking the cap and rotor, especially if you have miles. Good point in my opinion.
Good luck and have fun. I love Hondas.
I do check gaps on copper plugs since it is so easy; even though I have not had to adjust a new plug in years...
I only use NGK or Denso on Honda Toyota Nissans.
I think one post mentioned checking the cap and rotor, especially if you have miles. Good point in my opinion.
Good luck and have fun. I love Hondas.
Use NGK G-Power or Denso Platinum TT
They are a good price and may be slightly better than OE
They are a good price and may be slightly better than OE
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
I know there will never be consensus on anti-seize but this is similar to the product I use.
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
While that is good stuff, I prefer the nickel version https://www.permatex.com/products/l...ze/permatex-nickel-anti-seize-lubricant/ for it's higher heat rating and that it can be used in stainless steel exhaust system parts.
Use it on every plug I install.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/20B96CDA38BA91C/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/A741D6E3DF54D74/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/CAE25DDA5D8634F/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/450E87419F66184/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/21D1796942F1119/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/A7EB74E216900E3/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](http://www.fototime.com/FE340D071D9B56D/large.jpg "[Linked Image]")
I know there will never be consensus on anti-seize but this is similar to the product I use.
https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-anti-seize-lubricant-2/
While that is good stuff, I prefer the nickel version https://www.permatex.com/products/l...ze/permatex-nickel-anti-seize-lubricant/ for it's higher heat rating and that it can be used in stainless steel exhaust system parts.
Use it on every plug I install.
One of the best upgrades to cars are Iridium plugs. If your owners manual doesn't mention them, maybe it's because it's twenty years old.
atikovi, You are using WAY to much anti-seize.
Not as much as the guy posting the previous picture.
Originally Posted by atikovi
Not as much as the guy posting the previous picture.
You posted better pictures
Not as much as the guy posting the previous picture.
You posted better pictures
One more strategy regarding plugs: If you are going with Iridium plugs, they might be in the engine for 10 years. If you aren't going to own the car that long I guess you might not care, but baking plugs in aluminum heads for 10 years might call for a bit of anti-seize.
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