thoughts on waterless and no rinse washes?

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I don't trust grit being lubricated sufficiently to prevent marring..


I really think it depends on type of dirt (clay, granite, sand). I used to pre-rinse with water, pre-treat with ONR, and then clean each panel using MF mitt and an extra rinse bucket. The Benz still developed fine scratches from it. In one instance I washed the car one day after I used ONR and behold the marring appeared. In my experience they were just a tad more visible than marring from hand washing with water and soap.

It won't leave deep scratches but it's not any less marring than using water/soap IMO. I believe these products have a filler or something to hid the fine marring.

Perhaps I should have used a grout sponge instead

 

[qwertydude]

With my homemade waterless wash I find grout sponges still leave marring. Even though they're absorbent I find the dirt tends to build up around the edges and with enough dirt build up you get marring. And it's even worse with the commercial stuff at their recommended concentrations. The best material I've found actually is perhaps the cheapest of the wash mitts. The $3 long microfiber wash mitt from Walmart.

It simply puts the least amount of pressure and absorbs dirt most evenly and completely so it doesn't drag on the surface of the paint or on the edge of the mitt and cause marring.

Using this mitt there's no more chance of marring than any normal wash because eventually something has to touch the paint.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Chenille-Wash-Mitt-White/16817497

I've compared it to the Meguiar's one and the fibers are longer and softer. The disadvantage is eventually it falls apart sooner as the backing the fibers are pulled through eventually lets go of some of the yarns. After the initial shedding period it works really well for rinseless washing.

 

[jimbrewer]

I live in an area where a driveway wash is only allowed once a month, so I really don't have much choice.

I'm pretty pleased. I've used the Turtlewax and Duragloss products. They both work well. I do the "Garry Dean" method where you spritz the panel with concentrated rinseless, slap a microfiber towel (the el cheapos you get in the big bag at Sam's Club) saturated with the stuff, at regular strength, swipe a couple of times, follow up with a wrung out towwel then a dry towel. You need three gallons for a pickup truck I've found.

You have to use some common sense--no hard rubbing. No economizing by trying to use a towel beyond a few swipes or one panel, max. No cleaning a really dirty car without knocking the dirt off with a coin operated plain water squirt first. Its not particularly fast, nor slow. Average.

Some big time savers for me: I can do this at night during the week in the garage or in inclement weather. That's one less thing to do during my precious weekend. That's huge. Also, I've learned that if you get a lid for your bucket, you can wash your towels, mix up a new batch and toss a bunch of still damp towels in there and put the lid on. Hang dry the rest. The Duragloss product will go sour in a couple of weeks in warm weather if you don't use it. I don't know about Turtlewax.

About three times a year a do a full two-bucket wash before I wax. I'm not sure the car is any cleaner, though.

 

[qwertydude]

One other advantage of using the microfiber mitt I posted is you can do two things with it. Which let me clean quite dirty cars without fear of marring.

Taken straight out of the bucket dripping wet you wipe the panel with it. This really maximizes the dirt cleaning aspect of the waterless wash to about the same as a regular wash. It'll leave a lot of water behind but all you do is then dunk it again and wring it out quickly which releases the dirt into the bucket, a grit guard definitely is needed if your cars are especially dirty.

Since it's microfiber it's super absorbent and after wringing it out the excess dust and dirt goes into the bucket. Wipe the area again to get rid of the rest of the water still on the panel and it leaves behind very little water for your drying towel to have to absorb and what little water left behind will have practically no dirt particles to mar or get absorbed in the drying towel.

After doing the main rinseless wash I then go back over the whole car with a microfiber and very light misting of a microfiber cloth to remove any residue left behind by the main wash. My car is squeaky clean and freshly waxed too since my homemade rinseless wash includes a wax.

This also offers the best advantage because it means your drying towel will need less washings as it won't get clogged with dirt. After about a couple months though it will start losing some of its absorbency as the lubricating oils in the rinseless wash do soak into the fibers. Then it's time to wash but by then I have a full load of other microfibers that need washing. This also saves on the water needed for washing microfibers and makes for just about the least water intensive wash routine, taken as a whole, I can think of.

This way there's a minimal of equipment used. One bucket with grit guard, about 2-3 gallons of water, one wash mitt, one large drying towel, and to finish the car one microfiber and 1 spray bottle of spray detailer made with the rinseless wash for a final wipedown. The results always look like I fully detailed my car and I usually rinseless wash twice a week since my car is gloss black.

 

[qwertydude]

If anybody is interested in my formula. I've actually been making variants of it for a while and I've even looked up the formulas of the commercial products and realizing what I've made all along is essentially the same thing and in my opinion works better and is more affordable to use and will wax your car too.

Since Armor All was reformulated a few years back and I've run out of my original formula and it's tough to find the same ingredients, I've found the new polymers in the reformulated version make the rinseless wash even better it behaves just like the Turtle Wax stuff.

Buy one 64 ounce bottle of Armor All. Pour out 8 ounces of it, and save for your plastic protectant needs. Then put 6 ounces of Meguiars NXT 2.0 in it. Then 1 ounce of Kodak Photo Flo. The extra poured out ounce is just to serve as space to let you shake it. Photo Flo is a pure surfactant that enhances the cleaning ability of the rinseless wash by greatly reducing its surface tension which also enhances the lubricity it provides to prevent marring.

Be sure to shake the mix well before using. Because of the extremely concentrated nature of this product I only use 1 ounce to three gallons of water. And just comparing it to the commercial stuff which I know their "concentrate" isn't as concentrated. When you mix it to the directions on the bottle the water still comes out clear. With this formula there's enough lubricant that the water is still cloudy after mixing. So I know there's more lubricant in it and you can water it down further without harm.

I'm a firm believer in keeping the lubricant level high so one ounce per three gallons and the water still remaining cloudy to me keeps me comfortable. But you can easily do half an ounce to three gallons with no issues and it still cleans remarkably well and 64 ounces with a half ounce per wash yields 128 washes.

The hydrophobic polymers in NXT don't seem to be affected by the rinseless wash method and I've found still adhere well even after a wiping off with the detailer. My car always behave like it's freshly waxed and beads quite well even after a Dawn Wash to strip any wax, I wanted to see if my new reformulation will actually rewax a bare car. And it does.

 

[The Critic]

I've found that on crusty, moderately dirty cars, it's best to spray down the panel with ONR to soften the debris.

I ONR'ed my car last week and left some noticeable marring on some parts of the car. Ooops. I think it would've been a lot worse if the car was not Opti-Coated.