Yes, but all of these shortcomings are managed with proper additive packages and other things. Companies like Mobil have had enough experience and research on how to properly formulate PAO to meet latest specs including gen3 dexos.
Thoughts on GTL base stock synthetics?
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Yes, but all of these shortcomings are managed with proper additive packages and other things. Companies like Mobil have had enough experience and research on how to properly formulate PAO to meet latest specs including gen3 dexos.
Behaves like PAO is the key. PAO is very non-polar.
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Yes, which is fine, that's why you mix PAO with POE and AN's. But as I pointed out earlier, that makes the whole blend even more expensive. Does it have performance advantages? Absolutely. Does that mean this will translate into real world performance for Joe Blow Consumer? No.
On the Group III, that's why they have to include carrier oils, because the severely hydrotreated Group III oils are also very non-polar (though, as I noted, not QUITE as bad as PAO, but it's not a big difference).
Blending with PAO is more work and more money, while the benefits are quite specific, which we've already covered. So, if your application doesn't require those benefits, a blender going out of its way to blend an oil with PAO doesn't make much sense.
To put it into gun terms:
Putting together a PAO-based Dexos 5w30 for example, is like hunting deer at 200 yards with a .338 Lapua. A .308 (Group III) will get the job done just as well, at a small fraction of the cost. You stretch that out to 1,000+ yards and the superior ballistics of the Magnum round become relevant, but few people are doing that, just like very few people are pushing their 5w30 to the point where the oxidation resistance of the PAO blend would become relevant.
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And they both use a carrier base oil for the additive stock, but PAO needs POE balance for seals. And unlike what you have been trained to believe PAO is not the best lubrication, it needs the additive package friction modifiers.
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"Dry" base oils don't make great lubricants by themselves, that's why we have additive packages, that's the same whether it's PAO or GTL. An oil properly blended with PAO does have some advantages over Group III, but these come at a cost. Worded differently: the strengths of PAO can be complimented and built off of to produce a lubricant that offers superior performance to Group III, but this comes at a considerable price increase for the overall formulation. As I noted earlier, most people will never benefit from those advantages.
Who has been training that?
Apparently not you? But Mobil 1 marketing. 20,000 mile oil… If your OCI is far less are you are buying into it?
I don't think Mobil has really played the base oil composition angle, at least not anytime recently, they don't really disclose the base oils used in their oils, you can only guess based on the SDS and physical properties. Amsoil is the one that's been relentless "we're the only real synthetic" claims, the major players don't really talk much about base oil except Shell's "Pure Plus" marketing and Chevron's "ISOSYN technology" marketing which I've never paid much attention. Also to what you said earlier where did I say that base oil is the only part of what judges the performance of a lubricant, I'm pretty sure in the first reply on this thread that the finished lubricant is all that matters, base oil only plays a part in that and GTL and PAO are roughly equal in most use cases when it comes to passenger car lubes.
Mobil1 EP 0w-20 SDS shows 60-70% PAO content. Amsoil does have a lot of claims, but its SDS is mysterious.
Amsoil marketing has been “First in Synthetics”. But their OE and XL series are not PAO based oil, but Group III
https://www.ravenol.de/en/product/motorenoel/pkw-motorenoel/ravenol-dxg-sae-5w30
i have started to use this stuff in my vehicles. it cost 3 times more than the pennzoil products i usually buy. i have to import it from the usa. shipping is very expensive. i am never going back to anything else exept maybe for hpl pcmo premium plus series. i also use amsoil oil filters. blame bitog for my obession with pao and esters.
i have started to use this stuff in my vehicles. it cost 3 times more than the pennzoil products i usually buy. i have to import it from the usa. shipping is very expensive. i am never going back to anything else exept maybe for hpl pcmo premium plus series. i also use amsoil oil filters. blame bitog for my obession with pao and esters.
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DXG is pretty much the skinnier (thinner) brother of REP 5w30.
Similar composition. Excellent oil if the approvals meet your needs.
Currently on offer for 46.36 € per 5 liter in Germany btw..
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DXG is pretty much the skinnier (thinner) brother of REP 5w30.
Similar composition. Excellent oil if the approvals meet your needs.
Currently on offer for 46.36 € per 5 liter in Germany btw..
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Can you link that marketing? I really don’t buy into anything but demonstrated performance through approvals.
Maybe I'm not getting it but what do you mean by "relatively unimportant to performance in use"?
Which approvals?
Oh....now I understand. Thank you for using the gun terms!
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Bill, why the fanatic hate for PAO? What crusade you're on?
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Bill, why the fanatic hate for PAO? What crusade you're on?
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Absolutely do not hate PAO. For every good thing there is a balance of negative. I just have not heard of them here. I am just uneducated and want to learn. When I read about something I want to talk about it. You guys are a great source of discussion. PAO by itself does not do the magic IMO but neither does any base oil. Several oil blenders use PAO. When the OP asks a question I start to research. I found that GTL can be on par with PAO on VI also that GTL is also non-polar. And while the hydrocracking process for GTL puts it in the group III it is different. Plenty of benefits are added to PAO with a balance of POE and the additive package. All stuff I picked up from the OP.
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As with all the discussions with GTL vs PAO it always ends that all oils are good if they meet the specs and etc. its a fair point, but if I find reasonably priced PAO based oil from major manufacture that meets all the specs I need and has dexos gen 3, this is the oil I am getting. You can get GTL if thats what u like
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