Thoughts on Delvac 1630?

[Cardenio327]

To me Delvac 1630 (replacement for 1330) looks really good on paper.

PDS here: Delvac 1600 Monogrades

TBN of 12, 117 vi. They left out the HTHS, but I imagine it is quite high. I like the idea of monogrades, less additives means more oil, and no vii means no shearing and less varnish. This oil looks to me like its cold flow characteristics would be similar to 15w40 in my climate (lows occasionally reach 30 °F, usually always over 50 °F by the time I go to work).

I would like to use it in my motorcycles (both are back-speced to 10w30) but I use less than 3 quarts per year, it would take me 6 years to use a bucket. If I ever get a classic car I'll probably grab a bucket of this stuff.

 

[JHZR2]

You may be overthinking it from the "less additives means more oil" equates to better product point of view.

If it were the case, HD trucks would spec API 40 as opposed to 15w40.

Is it a decent product? Im sure. And if it fits your need, climate, and you can get it cheap, why not?

Given that youll be stocking up on quite a bit, you might want to consider a 10w30 HDEO in quarts or gallons if you can find one...

Is Mobil Delvac more popular in Mexico than CalTex/Texaco Ursa?

 

[Cardenio327]

I probably am over thinking it, but I've heard some oils contain up to 18% vii. Seems like a lot of unnecessary nothingness. 10w30 HDEO probably has very little vii though as Delvac 1630 seems to be about a 15w30 if such a viscosity existed. It seems to me a straight 30 would be lighter than a 15w40 at pretty much any temperature over 0°.

The only Texaco product I've seen here is Chevron Supreme.

Imported HDEOs are pretty much between Delvac and Tection, nothing available in 10w30. SOPUS only offers HDEOs in the Quaker State line, again no 10w30.

Roshfrans has a 5w30 HDEO speced for MAN and M-B buses, but I'm not impressed, and is sold by a minimum of 5 gallons too.

Anyway, it's all just speculation; my stash has 2 quarts of 5w40 Helix Ultra for the next change on the 400cc, it's probably chock full of vii.

 

[Shannow]

Have been following 1630 for ages, but it's only available in 205L drums in Oz. Doesn't seem to be replacing 1330 at the moment, but here's hoping...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1009125

 

[Cardenio327]

Interesting thread Shannow. I skimmed through the Cummins article posted on there. Seemed Cummins' engineers are convinced monogrades have higher consumption rates. I suspect that has more to do with monogrades are typically cheap cut rate oils. 1600 & 1300 series monogrades are hardly cheap oils, I doubt much difference in consumption would be found between 1640/1340 and 1300 15w40. On the other hand 1630 or 1330 would probably have more consumption on an engine speced for Xw40. Some rather scathing opinions on using UOA for determining OCI further down in the article.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
I probably am over thinking it, but I've heard some oils contain up to 18% vii. Seems like a lot of unnecessary nothingness.


Well, VIIs aren't a lot of unnecessary nothingness. Of course, they're a compromise. Generally, if one wants a conventional oil to perform properly as a multigrade, you're going to get some VIIs. The issues that people had with VIIs were more common many years ago, and aren't much of an issue these days. Very, very few applications recommend (or even allow) monogrades today.

As for Shannow's link on monogrades, do recall that they certainly not are on the cutting edge of oil technology. They're data sheets aren't filled with a bunch of exotic specs.

If you think VIIs are a lot of unnecessary nothingness, you should have tried starting a vehicle yesterday morning here where it hit -39 C.

 

[roadrunner1]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327
Interesting thread Shannow. I skimmed through the Cummins article posted on there. Seemed Cummins' engineers are convinced monogrades have higher consumption rates. I suspect that has more to do with monogrades are typically cheap cut rate oils. 1600 & 1300 series monogrades are hardly cheap oils, I doubt much difference in consumption would be found between 1640/1340 and 1300 15w40. On the other hand 1630 or 1330 would probably have more consumption on an engine speced for Xw40. Some rather scathing opinions on using UOA for determining OCI further down in the article.


Monogrades are not cheap cut rate oils, at least what I have used in the past.

The reason for higher consumption is during cold starts a straight grade is a straight grade. It doesn't need to be -40 either to experience consumption issues. When I reference a cold-start I am talking about anything prior to operating temp.

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: Garak
If you think VIIs are a lot of unnecessary nothingness, you should have tried starting a vehicle yesterday morning here where it hit -39 C.

I guess I didn't elaborate enough, I meant unnecessary nothingness for my application. I haven't used a monograde for 17 years except for in air compressors. It would be used in motorcycles or classic cars. The coldest it gets here is -1 °C, by the time I get around to starting an engine in the morning it is usually at least +10 °C.

1630 does have a pour point of -30 °C. 1300 10w30 and 1300 15w40 also have a pour point of -30 °C, so I doubt the 15w40 performs much better than the straight 30 at temperatures below zero.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Cardenio327

I guess I didn't elaborate enough, I meant unnecessary nothingness for my application. I haven't used a monograde for 17 years except for in air compressors. It would be used in motorcycles or classic cars. The coldest it gets here is -1 °C, by the time I get around to starting an engine in the morning it is usually at least +10 °C.


True enough. The cold cranking specs of the multigrades will be better, though, even if the pour point of the monograde is reasonable. Other than for air compressors or something truly requiring a monograde, I'd be tempted to stick to 15w40 or 10w-30 HDEOs, personally. Even for summer-only outdoor power equipment, I shy away from monogrades. As you pointed out, a 20 L pail of oil is an awful lot, particularly if it's in a grade you're not going to be using for a variety of engines.

 

[Cardenio327]

I agree with you completely Garak, this is all just speculation and oil nerdiness on my part. If I could get it in a gallon, I would have already tried it just to try it, but my Mobil jobber can't even get it in a 19 L pail, let alone in gallons. That leaves me in the same boat as Shannow, I want to give it a try, but there's no way I'm going to buy 19 L or 208 L.

 

[Garak]

No, a giant pail would be way too much. I would be in the same boat, too, if I wanted to try it in my outdoor power equipment. 20 L of that would outlast all the lawnmowers I'd ever own, and me, too.

I only used a straight grade (a 30) once in a John Deere lawn tractor many years back. My dad flipped, since he absolutely hated thick oils and monogrades. I saved myself a spanking by showing him that the manual allowed it under our conditions and that it met the appropriate API specs. On the plus side, he didn't have to look at bottles of straight 30 anymore.

It's like Mobil's compressor lube that I wanted to try. I can only get it in 208 L or more. Even in my industrial setting, the stash would outlast me.

 

[Cardenio327]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It's like Mobil's compressor lube that I wanted to try.


I use Mobil Rarus 427 in my compressor, I have a 19 L bucket of it that cost about $70 US from my jobber. It has been coming out looking like a chocolate milkshake when I change it, I can't figure out what is causing it to emulsify, I thought water was supposed to drop to the bottom of compressor oil, not emulsify. Last OCI was 3 mo. instead of the usual 6 mo., it still came out brown. I used Evans compressor oil from the local small engine shop before the Mobil, always drained out golden yellow after 6 mo. Prior to using real compressor oil I used Mobil Special 30 HD which came with it when I bought it used, which also drained yellow. I wonder if they mislabeled a bucket of plain hydraulic fluid at the factory. Its factory fill was Rarus 827, but that stuff runs about $250 a bucket.

 

[Garak]

That's a decent price for the Rarus, at least. How much use does your compressor get? Here, we're generally okay. My home compressor gets so little use it doesn't matter. At one of the businesses, the compressor and other pumps get used so much the oils are routinely at operating temperatures. I believe it's the 827 I was looking to get (the Imperial Oil site is acting up right now so I cannot confirm), but that's only in barrels for several thousand dollars.

Heat is the issue here from constant use. Water emulsification oddly isn't an issue, considering the use is in a very humid environment.

 

[Cardenio327]

It gets used to mount around 1500 tires per year, plus suspension work. I'd say it is running about a 20% duty cycle, so it's not getting used too much. It is in a bone dry 3 sided shed, with the entrance about 5 meters away and oblique to the machine, so I don't understand where it is getting the water from. Last OCI was Sept. to Dec., we got maybe 5 cm of rainfall in that time, humidity was low. The only other thing I can think of was that I changed the original air filter (4 years old) the same time I switched to Rarus, but the original didn't look like it was anything special.

 

[Garak]

Ours runs often in excess of 50% duty cycle on some days, and it's in a very humid room. So, considering your conditions, I don't understand the emulsion, either. You seem to have too much on the ball for the following to be a problem, but I'll suggest it just for completeness - are you draining the water out of the tank regularly? That can give one some idea of the humidity building up.

I get at least a pint out of the heavy use air compressor every day. I don't get that much out of my home air compressor over two years.

Heck, the only time I had water in the oil at the shop compressor was when a water line above the compressor exploded. The stupid thing hydro-locked and everything.

 

[Cardenio327]

Garak, you might be on to something. I only drain the tank when I change the oil. Usually about 3 to 4 gallons come out during the dry season or 5 to 6 gallons in the wet season [120 gallon tank]. The 1st air/water separator never has more than 2 ounces in it, and the 4 separators in the shop are always dry. I know it should be drained at least once a week, but afterwards the drain leaks air until corrosion seals it. I've changed the drain twice trying to remedy the leaking to have them leak after the first tank draining. Next time I'm going to plumb in a gas grade ball valve and give up on overpriced cheap petcocks. My retarded theory is that if the tank is drained often it will rust heavily at the very bottom, while if it is drained less frequently it will have a lighter coat of rust over a larger area in the lower part of the tank.

I have worked in shops where they never drained the tank. They would take about 10 or more years to fill completely and destroy the whole machine. I've watched a tech at another franchise of our company in the city lifting a car with a pneumatic hoist with water spraying out of the control handle as if nothing was wrong too.

 

[Garak]

We're taking this thread off the rails, but it is your thread, so no complaints from me.

Check the tank daily. On the one at the business, I affixed a small lever type drain to facilitate daily draining, basically a gas grade ball valve as you mention. I find them to be very durable and I've never had one of them leak air, unlike some of the standard petcocks. If you're storing anywhere from three to six gallons of water in your compressor, you're really wasting a lot of the potential of the air compressor and getting it to run more frequently than is needed. As for rust, I quit worrying about is, as there's little that can be done about it. Heck, sometimes I'll purge the water a couple times a day.

The output air/water separator drains itself each night when the output line is de-pressurized (thanks to the output being shut off each n ight, too). Not much comes out of there at all. A further downrange separator has very little water in it, ever.

 

[Cardenio327]

Thank you for your advice Garak. I'll put that on my to do list, to replace the petcock and drain it more often. I hadn't thought about the volume the water wastes. 3 to 6 gallons of water displaces a huge volume of uncompressed air.

 

[Garak]

No problem at all. The petcock switch out alone will save you a lot of headache.

The only reason I don't have one at home is my home air compressor runs less in two years than the work one does in half an hour.

 

[neilLB7]

My local rural king farm store has 30wt 1630 delvac in gallon and 5 gallon containers. And drums too if you want.